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From: Hi-Angel <hiangel999@gmail.com>
To: Nathan Sidwell <nathan@acm.org>
Cc: GCC Development <gcc@gcc.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2021 01:53:00 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHGDjgAW82bR3NyVU8zm-_moDWfHkz_gzs7bnQUQ3GEGn-Dtsw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <cfea5434-d6d6-9b96-af18-75e3288b637c@acm.org>

Hello! I don't know all the details, and it surprises me nobody is
asking for them. Let me be the first.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 23:03, Nathan Sidwell <nathan@acm.org> wrote:
> I’m a white dude with a British accent.
> /Of course/ I have white male privilege.

So, this text makes me feel sorry for the author, but at the same time
makes it clear he is writing under some emotional burnout that he
unambiguously shown he is experiencing.

I think before making any kind of decision it would be fair to ask the
author to provide references to the points he has written below.
Because someone's career is at stake, so that kind of decision
shouldn't be done that easily, just because someone wrote that on the
internet, right? And yes, I realize that "someone" is or was a
prolific developer, but so was RMS whom we are discussing here.

We all do code-review to look for developer's mistakes, and I think
it's useful to do the same here.

So, Nathan Sidwell, could you please provide references for the
problems you mentioned below?

> In the before-time, I had heard that RMS was ‘difficult’, or ‘socially awkward’.
>   I had ignored the true toxicity he engenders. I’m sure you have too. It didn’t
> directly affect me. I didn’t need to interact with him.  I’m not a woman. It
> diminishes all of us to ignore it.
> Let me list a few of the cases I have found.  Warning, this are extremely
> offensive repugnant opinions. Mostly referenced via  geekfeminism.wikia.org. It
> didn’t take me long to find them – I should have done so sooner and for that I
> am sorry.
>      1. 'skeptical that voluntarily pedophilia harms children.’  stallman's own
>   archives 2006-mar-jun  I note that children are *incapable* of consenting.
> That’s what the age of consent means.
>      2. 'end censorship of “child pornography”’. Stallman's archives
> 2012-jul-oct.html Notice use of “quotes” to down play what is actually being
> requested.
>      3. 'gentle expressions of attraction’ Stallman's archives 2012-jul-oct.html
> Condoning a variant of the wolf-whistle.  Unless one’s talking to one’s lover,
> ‘gentle invitations for sex’ by a stranger is *grooming* (be it child or of-age).
>      4. Defends someone charged with ‘"sexual assault" on a "child" after a
> session with a sex worker of age 16.’ stallman's archives 2018-jul-oct  Notice
> the quoting here, implying the *child* is not a child. ‘The article refers to
> the sex worker as a "child", but that is not so. Elsewhere it has been published
> that she is 16 years old. That is late adolescence, not childhood.’ No, they are
> a child, that’s what the ages of majority and consent mean.
>      5. The ‘St Ignatius’ ‘EMACS virgins’ non-joke. ‘The commenter writes about
> seeing the routine when she was only 15, and how RMS singled her out several
> times during that performance:
>         He actually pointed to me in the back and proclaimed, into the mic, "A
> GIRL!" causing the audience to turn and look. Mortifying. Then he proceeded to
> gesture toward me every time he referred to "EMACS Virgins." (I cannot believe
> that he is still doing the same talk 10+ years later.)’
>         No wonder women want nothing to do with him.
>      6. A business card that is completely repelling image on oreilly
>      7. He knows those cards are inappropriate.  He broke the code of conduct he
> helped author. wiredferret's twitter feed.
>      8. I understand he’s tried to circumvent such codes of conduct by asking
> women to meet him outside of the conference venue. _sagesharp_'s twitter feed.
>      9. He doesn’t acknowledge the few women he has worked with ‘I don’t have
> any experience working with women in programming projects; I don’t think that
> any volunteered to work on Emacs or GCC.’  Completely ignoring Sandra Loosemore,
> who is a coauthor, with him, of the Glibc manual. Sandra was involved with LISP
> standardization, so I would be surprised if he was unaware of her involvement
> there. As you well know, she has worked significantly on GCC,  GCC has several
> other women contributors, but too few for complacency.
>      10. ‘My first interaction with RMS was at a hacker con at 19. He asked my
> name, I gave it, whether I went to MIT (I had an MIT shirt on), and after
> confirmation I did, asked me on a date. I said no. That was our entire
> conversation.’ corbett's twitter feed. This is but one of many reports of
> utterly inappropriate social interactions.
> That list is no where near exhaustive, nor is it prioritized. As a personal
> anecdote, an acquaintance of mine who was at MIT, related that she was warned
> about RMS’s behaviour, and to never be alone with him.  It wasn’t an isolated
> warning.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-03-26 22:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 282+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-03-26 20:02 Nathan Sidwell
2021-03-26 20:20 ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-26 20:51 ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-26 21:18   ` Mark Wielaard
2021-03-26 21:34   ` David Malcolm
2021-03-26 21:09 ` Marek Polacek
2021-03-26 22:53 ` Hi-Angel [this message]
2021-03-26 23:50   ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-27  7:08     ` Didier Kryn
2021-03-27 21:44       ` Andrea Corallo
2021-03-29 17:28       ` Christophe de Dinechin
2021-03-27 13:38 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-03-27 14:10   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-27 15:45     ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-03-27 17:12   ` Siddhesh Poyarekar
2021-03-27 17:33     ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-28 14:50     ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-03-28 17:25       ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-03-28 19:01       ` Siddhesh Poyarekar
2021-03-28  2:16   ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-03-28  2:27     ` Óscar Fuentes
2021-03-28  4:08       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-28 12:47   ` Mark Wielaard
2021-03-28 13:19     ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-28 14:33     ` JeanHeyd Meneide
2021-03-28 18:13       ` Mark Wielaard
2021-03-28 18:42         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-28 19:15           ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-30  0:20         ` Joseph Myers
2021-03-30  1:32           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-30  8:20             ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-30  2:08           ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-03-30 10:03             ` Mark Wielaard
2021-03-28 17:58     ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-28 18:24     ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-03-28 23:21     ` Soul Studios
2021-03-29  0:20       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-29 12:18       ` Richard Kenner
2021-03-29 21:41         ` Soul Studios
2021-03-29 23:32           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-30  0:09             ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-03-30  0:39               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-30  1:30                 ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-03-30  1:56                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-30  9:14               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-30 11:56               ` Richard Kenner
     [not found]             ` <20210330115515.E8A2033CB0@vlsi1.gnat.com>
2021-03-30 12:33               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-30  9:28         ` Mark Wielaard
2021-03-30 12:37           ` Richard Kenner
2021-03-27 20:49 ` Martin Liška
2021-03-27 22:10   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-28 17:48   ` Jeff Law
2021-03-27 22:07 ` Martin Jambor
2021-03-28 15:26 ` Jeff Law
2021-03-29 10:11 ` Richard Biener
2021-03-30  8:25   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-30  9:47     ` Didier Kryn
2021-03-30  9:52       ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-30  9:52       ` Didier Kryn
2021-03-30 10:12       ` Andrew Haley
2021-03-30 10:34         ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-30 11:12           ` Andrew Haley
2021-03-30 11:32             ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-30 10:50 ` Pankaj Jangid
2021-03-30 13:16 ` Giacomo Tesio
2021-03-30 13:30   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-30 16:50   ` Martin Jambor
2021-03-30 17:10     ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-30 18:30       ` Gabriel Ravier
2021-03-30 18:52         ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-03-30 16:56   ` Markus Böck
2021-03-30 17:07   ` JeanHeyd Meneide
2021-03-30 17:45     ` Joseph Myers
2021-03-30 18:13       ` Christopher Dimech
     [not found]         ` <CAFVAEf2CP87uEuca677MQt4hriQWk5Rn4s9AaQ0yGPUpAeXWpg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]           ` <trinity-9f325315-c1b2-4fb5-b094-c0fd1534172a-1617140135769@3c-app-mailcom-bs07>
     [not found]             ` <CAFVAEf2QDDXMwAu1vtLpf-Gvqz6i19Jmph3dao9V6iWyysudMg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]               ` <trinity-b0f59ed8-7545-49d0-979a-b6a5323107e5-1617146046177@3c-app-mailcom-bs07>
2021-03-30 23:56                 ` Andrew Sutton
2021-03-30 18:09     ` JeanHeyd Meneide
2021-03-30 21:28     ` Giacomo Tesio
2021-03-30 22:18       ` Joseph Myers
2021-03-31  8:53       ` Martin Jambor
2021-03-31 13:26         ` Giacomo Tesio
2021-03-31 11:34       ` Mark Wielaard
2021-03-31 12:28         ` Richard Biener
2021-03-31 12:55           ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-31 12:59           ` David Edelsohn
2021-03-31 13:21             ` Richard Biener
2021-04-06 10:34               ` Mark Wielaard
2021-03-31 13:46             ` Florian Weimer
2021-03-31 15:23               ` David Edelsohn
2021-03-31 15:43                 ` Richard Biener
2021-03-31 15:43           ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-03-31 12:46         ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-06 22:22           ` GCC association with the FSF Mark Wielaard
2021-04-06 22:28             ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-07 14:04             ` David Malcolm
2021-04-07 17:17               ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-07 17:21                 ` Jeff Law
2021-04-08 15:00                 ` David Brown
2021-04-08 16:43                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-08 18:40                     ` David Brown
2021-04-11 21:23                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-11 22:41                         ` Nathan Sidwell
2021-04-08 19:30                     ` Gabriel Ravier
2021-04-09 11:48                       ` Pankaj Jangid
2021-04-09 14:47                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09 16:30                         ` Gabriel Ravier
2021-04-10 12:58                           ` Pankaj Jangid
2021-04-10 16:34                             ` David Brown
2021-04-10 18:57                               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-12  4:17                               ` Pankaj Jangid
2021-04-08 17:22                   ` Giacomo Tesio
2021-04-08 18:26                     ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-04-08 20:26                     ` David Brown
2021-04-11 13:39                   ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-04-11 14:03                     ` David Brown
2021-04-11 14:42                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-11 14:21                     ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-08 19:48               ` Mark Wielaard
2021-04-08 20:33                 ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09  6:27                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-04-09 13:08                   ` Paul Koning
2021-04-09 14:08                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-11 13:42                 ` Richard Sandiford
2021-04-11 15:06                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-11 15:56                     ` David Brown
2021-04-11 16:45                       ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-12  9:32                         ` Richard Biener
2021-04-12 10:27                           ` Thomas Koenig
2021-04-12 21:24                           ` Nathan Sidwell
2021-04-13  6:01                             ` Richard Biener
2021-04-13 14:40                               ` Jeff Law
2021-04-13 16:52                                 ` Thomas Koenig
2021-04-13 17:19                                   ` Jeff Law
2021-04-13 17:32                                     ` Thomas Koenig
2021-04-13 23:41                                       ` Jeff Law
2021-04-14  6:44                                         ` Thomas Koenig
2021-04-14  7:57                                           ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-14 10:03                                             ` Thomas Koenig
2021-04-14 10:19                                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-14 12:08                                                 ` Richard Biener
2021-04-14 16:18                                                   ` Jeff Law
2021-04-14 16:35                                                     ` Toon Moene
2021-04-14 16:55                                                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-14 17:42                                                         ` Jeff Law
2021-04-14 18:07                                                           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-14 17:53                                                     ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-15 16:02                                                   ` Jason Merrill
2021-04-15 16:24                                                     ` Richard Biener
2021-04-15 17:42                                                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-07 14:51             ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-04-07 15:15               ` David Malcolm
2021-04-07 16:24                 ` John Darrington
2021-04-07 17:14                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-07 22:34                   ` David Malcolm
2021-04-08  6:45                     ` John Darrington
2021-04-08 11:56                       ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-08 12:08                         ` John Darrington
2021-04-08 14:54                       ` David Malcolm
2021-04-08 18:21                         ` John Darrington
2021-04-08 18:58                           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09  1:35                           ` David Malcolm
2021-04-09  6:37                             ` John Darrington
2021-04-09 10:37                               ` David Brown
2021-04-09 14:40                                 ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09 17:01                                   ` David Brown
2021-04-09 18:02                                     ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09 19:37                                       ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-04-09 21:02                                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09 21:17                                           ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-04-09 21:34                                             ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10  2:53                                       ` Liu Hao
2021-04-10  3:15                                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10 12:50                                           ` Bronek Kozicki
2021-04-10 14:10                                             ` John Darrington
2021-04-10 15:33                                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-10 19:47                                             ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-10 21:45                                               ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-10 23:06                                           ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-04-10 12:27                                       ` David Brown
2021-04-10 13:04                                         ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-10 14:49                                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10 15:17                                           ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-04-10 15:54                                             ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10 16:14                                               ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-04-10 16:49                                                 ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10 15:59                                             ` David Malcolm
2021-04-10 16:09                                               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10 20:10                                             ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-10 22:06                                               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-11 13:11                                                 ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-11 14:04                                                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10 22:30                                               ` Gerald Pfeifer
2021-04-11 12:05                                                 ` John Darrington
2021-04-11 13:00                                                   ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-11 13:24                                                   ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-11 13:43                                                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-11 13:12                                                 ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-11 13:23                                                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-11 13:26                                                   ` Frosku
2021-04-11 13:32                                                     ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-11 13:30                                                   ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-11 14:25                                                     ` John Darrington
2021-04-11 14:37                                                       ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-11 15:04                                                         ` David Brown
2021-04-12  0:08                                                           ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-04-11 14:17                                                   ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-11 18:28                                                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-11 20:04                                                       ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-11 20:45                                                         ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-11 22:30                                                           ` Adhemerval Zanella
2021-04-11 23:06                                                             ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-11 23:33                                                               ` Adhemerval Zanella
2021-04-12  1:43                                                                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-12  2:15                                                                   ` Siddhesh Poyarekar
2021-04-12  3:13                                                                   ` Adhemerval Zanella
2021-04-12 17:52                                                                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-04-12 18:18                                                                       ` Adhemerval Zanella
2021-04-12  7:25                                                             ` John Darrington
2021-04-12  9:00                                                               ` Siddhesh Poyarekar
2021-04-11 23:13                                                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09 18:26                                     ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09 18:36                                     ` John Darrington
2021-04-09 20:04                                       ` Giacomo Tesio
2021-04-09 21:40                                         ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-04-09 22:12                                           ` Giacomo Tesio
2021-04-09 22:39                                             ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-10 11:36                                               ` Pankaj Jangid
2021-04-10 12:35                                                 ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-04-10 15:04                                                   ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-04-10 16:01                                                     ` Giacomo Tesio
2021-04-10 16:12                                                       ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10 19:52                                                       ` Thomas Rodgers
2021-04-10 21:29                                                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-10 20:13                                                       ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-10 22:50                                                       ` Gerald Pfeifer
2021-04-11 23:56                                                 ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-04-12  1:03                                                   ` David Edelsohn
2021-04-12  1:34                                                     ` Chris Punches
2021-04-12 10:24                                                       ` Bronek Kozicki
2021-04-12 11:57                                                         ` Bronek Kozicki
2021-04-12 15:25                                                       ` Kalamatee
2021-04-12 21:22                                                       ` Nathan Sidwell
2021-04-12 23:09                                                         ` Chris Punches
2021-04-13  0:29                                                           ` Daniel (Robin) Smith
2021-04-09 22:58                                             ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09 23:12                                             ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-10 22:33                                         ` Gerald Pfeifer
2021-04-10 12:37                                       ` David Brown
2021-04-10 15:28                                         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-09 13:00                               ` Christopher Dimech
2021-04-07 18:00                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-31 13:28         ` Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee Giacomo Tesio
2021-03-31 13:49           ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-31 14:47           ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-31 14:18         ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-31 14:22           ` Paul Koning
2021-03-31 14:43             ` Joel Sherrill
2021-03-31 15:49               ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-03-31 18:27                 ` David Edelsohn
2021-04-01 17:07                   ` Nathan Sidwell
2021-04-01 19:19                     ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-04-01 20:33                       ` Joseph Myers
2021-04-01 21:03                         ` Christian Groessler
2021-04-01 21:53                         ` Thomas Koenig
2021-04-01 22:00                           ` Richard Kenner
2021-04-05 15:32                       ` Nathan Sidwell
2021-04-06 10:27                       ` Richard Biener
2021-04-06 11:18                         ` Matthias Klose
2021-04-06 14:14                         ` Siddhesh Poyarekar
2021-04-06 17:17                         ` Ian Lance Taylor
2021-03-31 14:56           ` David Malcolm
2021-03-31 15:43             ` Christopher Dimech
2021-03-31  1:57     ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-03-31  2:51       ` JeanHeyd Meneide
2021-03-31  3:51         ` Alexandre Oliva
2021-03-31  7:14     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-03-31  8:15       ` JeanHeyd Meneide
2021-03-30 15:24 ` Maksim Fomin
2021-03-30 16:20   ` Richard Kenner
2021-03-31 11:08   ` Franz Fehringer
2021-03-30  7:46 mfriley
2021-03-30  8:14 ` Jonathan Wakely
2021-03-30 23:33 Ville Voutilainen

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