From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23709 invoked by alias); 24 Jan 2014 06:20:54 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gcc-help@gcc.gnu.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: Sender: gcc-owner@gcc.gnu.org Received: (qmail 23685 invoked by uid 89); 24 Jan 2014 06:20:53 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,RP_MATCHES_RCVD,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-HELO: mail-oa0-f41.google.com Received: from mail-oa0-f41.google.com (HELO mail-oa0-f41.google.com) (209.85.219.41) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.93/v0.84-503-g423c35a) with (AES128-SHA encrypted) ESMTPS; Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:20:52 +0000 Received: by mail-oa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id j17so3364537oag.0 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 22:20:50 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=M8LVVGmpWQtg8YjQQYrJQ/8/p+UT4XGjOyDMkX7NlX8=; b=TMfz4qu++Y9NZ7R+CkyBfJ5txMobK0p1tJF0PyUnGDqnShwUorXXqC8/61kLTPW5Fe mRiqnNUgn0oJaOH6j+QftQu/752+WCU7e+i7Gx/GdPYLyMhIjucY9UgecTzGVxTFcR2r P7qrGpfvBowiUkruljPjSo8/1U8rnJOgAC3DzDhONDQFsbAXZMDwT0dONd0FnjqOE9nV uxralja86/7Hc+3Mhbh6wPNFY/Oip2zqBnJ7y3tVInskMJRle+Kot8mpIqv5TfiLEzWB XskMSi8P0cztTTSNlyQvG5thj3L9nHSwuF7IevJLg7iOxiO53iO6KH7J7oKjVourBnFr z8yg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm/r2IObcyimGJGnKbYhplkBMJhvwWJwUPDzZcV4S/1Z6nH7Jt/4lNISJ7v9Ki76laSFqKYKX11CqpT/di655HFkn7jetJogip6kONbQ5DXaISpkpmSbM/l3v1I0l1XQuRQdPaaQKgJ5tsPEVtoo4tBzWXBllmgmbQkDGpvFdWMeapkh9L2A1CZlfXRwaAduHpCGrZE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.43.161 with SMTP id x1mr10591726obl.5.1390544450383; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 22:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.39.170 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 22:20:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7E84FF6E-CBB4-4217-B14F-8867BCCDBE56@gmail.com> References: <20140123212747.6FE32380525@snark.thyrsus.com> <9CE797A6-7F95-435A-8F5D-EF93B9DA165A@gmail.com> <1931157.XNBpQ8mPhG@polaris> <7E84FF6E-CBB4-4217-B14F-8867BCCDBE56@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 06:32:00 -0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Don't shoot the messenger From: Ian Lance Taylor To: Gregory Casamento Cc: Eric Botcazou , GCC Mailing List , Jonathan Wakely , "Eric S. Raymond" , Steven Bosscher Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-IsSubscribed: yes X-SW-Source: 2014-01/txt/msg00232.txt.bz2 On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:02 PM, Gregory Casamento wrote: > > Granted, however, at the very least GCC should consciously ramp up it=E2= =80=99s support for Objective-C. Currently the Objective-C implementation = in GCC is woefully out of date as it doesn=E2=80=99t include basic support = for ARC. I would like to see that happen, but we must be realistic. GCC development is driven in part by volunteers and in part by company contributions. There is only one large company that is interested in Objective C: Apple. Apple has chosen to use clang/LLVM and reject GCC, ostensibly for licensing reasons (although personally speaking I have to say that those arguments have not made sense to me for some time). It follows that all work on Objective C support in GCC will be done by volunteers. Most people who use Objective C naturally use clang/LLVM; after all, it is free, and it works well. So the volunteer pool for Objective C in GCC is relatively small. It is basically those people who want or need to use Objective C and prefer to use GCC, or GPL software in general. There aren't very many of those people. They've actually done a good job in maintaining GCC's Objective C frontend. But while I would like to see significant additions to the frontend like ARC support, I would hesitate on planning to see it occur. To the extent that clang/LLVM and GCC are fighting, which is not really the case, then I think it makes sense for GCC to focus on its strengths, not its weaknesses. Objective C is not a strength. I'm not sure it makes sense for the GCC project to encourage its limited volunteer resources to work on it. Sorry for being blunt, but that is how I see it. Ian