From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from sender4-op-o18.zoho.com (sender4-op-o18.zoho.com [136.143.188.18]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7B4C385803F for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2021 00:05:06 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org E7B4C385803F Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=frosku.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=frosku@frosku.com ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1618531501; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=N0UGG2/iZPouYp/BU3kGHQmFpX8p0Lk/2BOfBpNpw7Qn8C5C2Vz3kyBVeIHNtE1QtU1iKLsHxo9b/6QxP6kAnQ6P75Vsm8ZjAtUNwVAjJ/tYHstiKcLDWyVlu0owjQoE9r6wDF+m6zWuMTK4wLyn4fezuRSGJxBllHoQjv7h25Q= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1618531501; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=oTS11TYFQdHLus04rsBOfZCOiT+OwGrtqp8gV75ASLA=; b=jCtV/CpvRv4YOzkFbjFmGMSeRVyy7s3YUlvSYnd5ZHWgYbRV0HQokiQ4acL1JRz0TXZ6evysAouI0B1rmazznerWo6bh3NFB48PGG0JP15HRUpnyXCuz4Hwov3uXCr7j913G0pyGVyr5WwBY5fsofVimAifhC//zQ3Hdjx24dL8= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=frosku.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=frosku@frosku.com; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1618531501; s=zoho; d=frosku.com; i=frosku@frosku.com; h=Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Date:Message-Id:To:Cc:Subject:From:References:In-Reply-To; bh=oTS11TYFQdHLus04rsBOfZCOiT+OwGrtqp8gV75ASLA=; b=ZNhFdkfO9v5JAAN8XoWtW7xQ4wgdA2OT2Rxj+0S5w2mXzCyaGTqmIENB8f4YseAK Q1FchTR+u5N6VL1Y0C4aYykX4ak3pUzY26uCpPAd8iBSoIzr3/pdSd+3K3mB8yuOPnX 8UTSncFaZLqbR6MCBZUqT7op5oZ82PhUsKyNx42Q= Received: from localhost (90.210.249.179 [90.210.249.179]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 161853149878027.739421300738513; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 17:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 01:04:56 +0100 Message-Id: To: , "Christopher Dimech" Cc: "GCC Development" Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers From: "Frosku" References: <20210414142310.98E0833DD0@vlsi1.gnat.com> <20210414152112.GD4138043@thyrsus.com> <20210415134907.GA51340@thyrsus.com> <96db05d78cb1f829d0b3ce3026ac15a335fffd41.camel@redhat.com> <3e0b8d933eef3eb7f12e86bf6bc92dec6965065d.camel@silogroup.org> <20210415235237.GA71223@thyrsus.com> In-Reply-To: <20210415235237.GA71223@thyrsus.com> X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3488.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED, KAM_DMARC_STATUS, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2021 00:05:08 -0000 On Fri Apr 16, 2021 at 12:52 AM BST, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > Christopher Dimech via Gcc : > > The commercial use of free software is our hope, not our fear. When pe= ople > > at IBM began to come to free software, wanting to recommend it and use = it, > > and maybe distribute it themselves or encourage other people to distrib= ute > > it for them, we did not criticise them for not being non-profit virtuou= s > > enough, or said "we are suspicious of you", let alone threatening them. > > Actually, some of us did *exactly* those things late in the last > century. > > One of the challenges I faced in my early famous years was persuading > the hacker culture as a whole to treat the profit-centered parts of the > economy as allies rather than enemies. > > I won't say that a *majority* of us were resistent to this, but I > did have to work hard on the problem for a while, between 1997 > and about 2003. ESR, My criticism has nothing to do with profit and everything to do with accountability. GCC is a project which is used by almost everyone in the ecosystem, and whose future direction is important to almost everyone in the ecosystem. Right now, the ultimate oversight of GCC sits with GNU & FSF -- both institutions with a mandate to represent the ecosystem based on level of membership and time spent fighting for free software. GCC forking away from those institutions removes that oversight, and unless something which is equally or more representative is brought in to replace that oversight role, I find it difficult to believe that this doesn't represent a huge step backwards in terms of who ultimately has an input into the future direction of GCC. It should be, at the very minimum, challenging for representatives of Google, Red Hat and other corporations to convince anyone -- after wrestling the project away from GCC -- that their interests are not at odds with GCC users'. I would say *exactly* the same thing if you replaced Google/Red Hat with nonprofits which have less trust in free software than GNU/FSF. >>=3D %frosku =3D { os =3D> 'gnu+linux', editor =3D> 'emacs', coffee =3D> 1= } =3D<<