From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from sender4-op-o18.zoho.com (sender4-op-o18.zoho.com [136.143.188.18]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B6443987C1B for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 03:47:27 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 3B6443987C1B Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=frosku.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=frosku@frosku.com ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1618890440; cv=none; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; b=X9F/vq8UUIwbU3AEoxSMAe7PgbLCAf1d22/3bZ+oQWEddVRMvlwV04IX0csAoaSG8GoC3MKkh2IXys+jNKLkMe34C87bexz7LBaY6RJSreWPSy5GSrU2FWTJlmfe8r3WFKKWjTLKfmLw2Y6TfwkPUAlO9KV1E7gRpENrB4tVWmI= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=zohomail.com; s=zohoarc; t=1618890440; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:From:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Message-ID:References:Subject:To; bh=khyKoIjKa2SR/c42wmpylMTPDg6DHvAp6X9geCbRqq8=; b=Rmqbiyii8/9XBtx2EqWOzPycOM4Ico/tFE40p6JF24vw/1CTdb3cYXdWJjaLUhUslYZ+lMU5yHWsuU6AiJUSv5HMtmxgohMiz0kAx+615jutV+oUDNu8XMP/3VMxay1rEoze7rGTpRk+CJduNuFIuPhOohQdj8ZJ9weZR2GMICE= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.zohomail.com; dkim=pass header.i=frosku.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=frosku@frosku.com; dmarc=pass header.from= header.from= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1618890440; s=zoho; d=frosku.com; i=frosku@frosku.com; h=Mime-Version:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Date:Message-Id:To:Cc:Subject:From:References:In-Reply-To; bh=khyKoIjKa2SR/c42wmpylMTPDg6DHvAp6X9geCbRqq8=; b=cGu1kQ0qXzY5G0JSDQDhoZ8echKaWRRBjFYdEz+BBbg7hZDv1K/et2xzse1tWrye pNacYwGckrhYfOuEXvpetkKdC2GDoQtvCc1CMmO9nuDsUemCXwOLHW9NbM0zSVfAE/l +DxlbQ1jQQnu4EmqubiZxRwE1/xJvwV3SeIRZb3c= Received: from localhost (5ec03ebd.skybroadband.com [94.192.62.189]) by mx.zohomail.com with SMTPS id 1618890439217490.01633242851926; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 20:47:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 04:47:17 +0100 Message-Id: To: "Thomas Rodgers" , "Jonathan Wakely" Cc: "Jonathan Wakely via Gcc" Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers From: "Frosku" References: <20210415134907.GA51340@thyrsus.com> <96db05d78cb1f829d0b3ce3026ac15a335fffd41.camel@redhat.com> <3e0b8d933eef3eb7f12e86bf6bc92dec6965065d.camel@silogroup.org> <40f0e05b-3156-a649-b636-c90b8b8e0f8@pfeifer.com> <4A7DE074-9600-4513-A05C-566926D447BE@tesio.it> <535f1dcf-2258-c817-cf72-5c49dc9e5823@hesbynett.no> <20210418131052.GB320802@thyrsus.com> <92c014fc39022ea03c6c801bb76ab39674e8a6fb.camel@redhat.com> <542eb0298a485953602e0f28f94b9f03@appliantology.com> In-Reply-To: <542eb0298a485953602e0f28f94b9f03@appliantology.com> X-ZohoMailClient: External X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3487.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_INVALID, DKIM_SIGNED, KAM_DMARC_STATUS, RCVD_IN_BARRACUDACENTRAL, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_NONE, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 03:47:37 -0000 On Mon Apr 19, 2021 at 4:06 PM BST, Thomas Rodgers wrote: > Google doesn't pay anybody to work on GCC all day. You know nothing > about > GCC or the "problems" you're complaining about. Your input to this > conversation is not constructive. This feels like that moment in 8Mile, "pay attention, you're saying the same shit that he said." The personal insults and technical semantic arguments are testament to the fact that you're not willing or not able to argue the points. It's quite incredible that two people have replied to the same multiple-hundred word e-mail about a broad issue of trying to gatekeep discussion and both have focused on semantics ("it's not *all* day"). I will remember not to use hyperbole in future for fear of it being taken literally and used as an excuse to dodge the point. > > Once upon a time, free software developers understood that users' > > opinions > > were as valid as contributor's opinions. > > That depends on the user. > > Once upon a time, free software's developers *were* it's primary users, > i.e. they built the technology for themselves and made it freely > available in the hope that it would be useful to others. It's also the > case that the vast majority of GCC *current* users are not here making > proclamations about what GCC's project governance should be. Rather it's > a vocal and vanishingly small minority, who have contributed nothing of > value, code or insights, and continue to vocally do so. Many of GCC's > users are, however, watching in horror at the absolutely amateurish way > in which this is playing out and wondering if their long term commitment > should be to using this piece of software to build their > products/businesses. It's obvious that the majority of current users aren't here, the majority o= f current users don't use the mailing lists. What have you done to try to consult their opinions on the matter? It's amazing how much effort is being expended to silence opposition, whilst not even one argument has been made as to how breaking from FSF/GNU will result in a better technical outcome. >>=3D %frosku =3D { os =3D> 'gnu+linux', editor =3D> 'emacs', coffee =3D> 1= } =3D<<