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From: Devang Patel <dpatel@apple.com>
To: Aldy Hernandez <aldyh@redhat.com>
Cc: Devang Patel <dpatel@apple.com>, "gcc@gcc.gnu.org" <gcc@gcc.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:17:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E8B82838-E433-11D5-A87D-00306558FC20@apple.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m3elmjvdk7.fsf@litecycle.cc.andrews.edu>


On Tuesday, November 27, 2001, at 06:23  PM, Aldy Hernandez wrote:

>>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Mitchell <mark@codesourcery.com> writes:
>
>>> Consider a preprocessor that takes current Altivec C code and produces
>>> either standard or extended C code (GNU extensions).  If adopting the
>>> existing Altivec syntax is too painful, a second choice might be to 
>>> figure
>>> out syntax choices that would make such a preprocessor very easy to 
>>> write.
>>> Then we don't have to ask existing users to rewrite their code.
>
>> Yup, I thought about this too.  It's plausible, but a pretty 
>> substantial
>> effort, and not easy to do robustly with the tools we've got.
>
> I've actually thought about implementing generic front end extension
> support to gcc for this kind of nonsense.  Sort of like a preprocessor
> ...
> what do y'all think?

- One very big disadvantage of GCC, compared to other compilers, is
   compile time speed. I think it may not be a good idea to eat millions 
of
   tokens just to take care of couple of tokens. Every machine cycle 
counts.

- It may open pandora's box for many unnecessary extensions and put
   GCC users in difficult situation when these extensions are not carry
   forwarded.

Instead of extra preprocessor , It's would be nice to have good  plug-in 
architecture
in GCC front end (like GCC back end architecture)

- Plus, this kind of extension means Altivec will always remains outside 
of main
   GCC front end engine. And it may not be a good idea in long run, 
because
   -- Any major redesign/improvement of front end will not consider 
Altivec during
       design and will require extra support to keep Altivec extension up 
to date.
   -- Any future C-based language standard update may introduce new things
        which may collide with spec supported by such Altivec extension. 
This
        can create lots of problems for Altivec users as well as GCC 
developers.
        It is better to accept clear set of Altivec specs as part of GCC 
front end so that
        GCC can raise hands against such future collisions. (Which means, 
this
        may be the time two clean up any ambiguity in Altivec spec, if 
there is any, as
        far as GCC is concerned)

my thoughts,

Devang

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID
From: Devang Patel <dpatel@apple.com>
To: Aldy Hernandez <aldyh@redhat.com>
Cc: Devang Patel <dpatel@apple.com>, "gcc@gcc.gnu.org" <gcc@gcc.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:09:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <E8B82838-E433-11D5-A87D-00306558FC20@apple.com> (raw)
Message-ID: <20011128110900.6mPAVE5IbnmXoO_WM1SvIjnFSMcgrm_KTHBkBcQ4PDs@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <m3elmjvdk7.fsf@litecycle.cc.andrews.edu>

On Tuesday, November 27, 2001, at 06:23  PM, Aldy Hernandez wrote:

>>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Mitchell <mark@codesourcery.com> writes:
>
>>> Consider a preprocessor that takes current Altivec C code and produces
>>> either standard or extended C code (GNU extensions).  If adopting the
>>> existing Altivec syntax is too painful, a second choice might be to 
>>> figure
>>> out syntax choices that would make such a preprocessor very easy to 
>>> write.
>>> Then we don't have to ask existing users to rewrite their code.
>
>> Yup, I thought about this too.  It's plausible, but a pretty 
>> substantial
>> effort, and not easy to do robustly with the tools we've got.
>
> I've actually thought about implementing generic front end extension
> support to gcc for this kind of nonsense.  Sort of like a preprocessor
> ...
> what do y'all think?

- One very big disadvantage of GCC, compared to other compilers, is
   compile time speed. I think it may not be a good idea to eat millions 
of
   tokens just to take care of couple of tokens. Every machine cycle 
counts.

- It may open pandora's box for many unnecessary extensions and put
   GCC users in difficult situation when these extensions are not carry
   forwarded.

Instead of extra preprocessor , It's would be nice to have good  plug-in 
architecture
in GCC front end (like GCC back end architecture)

- Plus, this kind of extension means Altivec will always remains outside 
of main
   GCC front end engine. And it may not be a good idea in long run, 
because
   -- Any major redesign/improvement of front end will not consider 
Altivec during
       design and will require extra support to keep Altivec extension up 
to date.
   -- Any future C-based language standard update may introduce new things
        which may collide with spec supported by such Altivec extension. 
This
        can create lots of problems for Altivec users as well as GCC 
developers.
        It is better to accept clear set of Altivec specs as part of GCC 
front end so that
        GCC can raise hands against such future collisions. (Which means, 
this
        may be the time two clean up any ambiguity in Altivec spec, if 
there is any, as
        far as GCC is concerned)

my thoughts,

Devang

  parent reply	other threads:[~2001-11-28 19:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 229+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-11-16  9:10 front end changes for altivec Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-16  9:25 ` Andreas Jaeger
2001-11-26  2:55   ` Andreas Jaeger
2001-11-18  3:56 ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-18  4:24   ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-18  5:09     ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-18  6:10       ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-18  7:35         ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-26 19:50           ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-26 18:19         ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-18 12:41       ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-18 13:38         ` Andreas Jaeger
2001-11-18 15:32           ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-18 16:49             ` Bernd Schmidt
2001-11-18 17:06               ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27  8:29                 ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27  8:00               ` Bernd Schmidt
2001-11-27  7:55             ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27  7:50           ` Andreas Jaeger
2001-11-19  8:02         ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-19  8:35           ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19  9:19             ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-19 11:51               ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-19 13:41                 ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-19 16:13                   ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19 17:51                     ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-19 19:15                       ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19 20:50                         ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 17:14                           ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 17:10                         ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-21 13:08                       ` Alexandre Oliva
2001-11-21 13:12                         ` Daniel Berlin
2001-11-21 13:29                           ` Alexandre Oliva
2001-11-21 13:31                             ` Daniel Berlin
2001-11-21 13:41                               ` Jack Lloyd
2001-11-28 23:44                                 ` Jack Lloyd
2001-11-28 23:00                               ` Daniel Berlin
2001-11-28 22:34                             ` Alexandre Oliva
2001-11-21 13:33                           ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-21 13:49                             ` Daniel Berlin
2001-11-29  4:45                               ` Daniel Berlin
2001-11-28 23:16                             ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-28 22:21                           ` Daniel Berlin
2001-11-21 13:24                         ` Per Bothner
2001-11-28 22:25                           ` Per Bothner
2001-11-28 21:07                         ` Alexandre Oliva
2001-11-27 17:03                       ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 16:57                     ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 15:16                   ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 14:50                 ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-19 15:25               ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19 17:46                 ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-19 21:39                   ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-20  1:05                     ` Dale Johannesen
2001-11-20  2:23                       ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 17:45                         ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 17:40                       ` Dale Johannesen
2001-11-20  2:46                     ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-20  2:56                       ` front end changes for altivec-- conclusion Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 18:00                         ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 17:50                       ` front end changes for altivec Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 17:24                     ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 17:02                   ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 16:50                 ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 14:01               ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 13:52             ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 13:40           ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27  7:24         ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-26 17:04       ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-26 16:39     ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-18  6:40   ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for altivec) Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-18  6:33     ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-26 18:46       ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-18  8:19     ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-18  9:13       ` Ira Ruben
2001-11-18 12:26         ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19  4:45           ` Ira Ruben
2001-11-19  6:04             ` Geoff Keating
2001-11-19  7:28               ` Ira Ruben
2001-11-19 12:04                 ` Phil Edwards
2001-11-27 14:58                   ` Phil Edwards
2001-11-27 12:47                 ` Ira Ruben
2001-11-27 12:10               ` Geoff Keating
2001-11-19  7:50             ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 13:12               ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 10:53             ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes foraltivec) Ira Ruben
2001-11-19  6:26           ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for altivec) Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-19  7:53             ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19  7:56               ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 13:21                 ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 13:13               ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 12:41             ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27  6:46           ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-18 18:51         ` Per Bothner
2001-11-27  9:20           ` Per Bothner
2001-11-18 23:55         ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-19  4:18           ` Ira Ruben
2001-11-19  4:48             ` Per Bothner
2001-11-19  5:28               ` Daniel Berlin
2001-11-27 11:35                 ` Daniel Berlin
2001-11-19  6:26               ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-20  0:33                 ` Per Bothner
2001-11-20  3:16                   ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-20  6:33                     ` Per Bothner
2001-11-27 18:27                       ` Per Bothner
2001-11-20 11:05                     ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-27 18:35                       ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-27 18:06                     ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-20  3:19                   ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-20  5:25                     ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-27 18:24                       ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-20 11:27                     ` Per Bothner
2001-11-27 19:59                       ` Per Bothner
2001-11-20 11:37                     ` Mark Mitchell
2001-11-20 17:03                       ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-20 18:25                         ` Mark Mitchell
2001-11-28  9:45                           ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes foraltivec) Mark Mitchell
2001-11-28  7:11                         ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for altivec) Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-20 19:20                       ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-20 20:24                         ` Mark Mitchell
2001-11-20 23:47                           ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for Joe Buck
2001-11-28 12:43                             ` Joe Buck
2001-11-28 11:31                           ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes foraltivec) Mark Mitchell
2001-11-20 20:27                         ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for altivec) Dale Johannesen
2001-11-20 20:38                           ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-21  4:47                             ` Syd Polk
2001-11-21 12:31                               ` Tim Hollebeek
2001-11-28 16:15                                 ` Tim Hollebeek
2001-11-28 14:12                               ` Syd Polk
2001-11-28 11:55                             ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-28 11:44                           ` Dale Johannesen
2001-11-28 11:19                         ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-27 20:40                       ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes foraltivec) Mark Mitchell
2001-11-27 18:09                     ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for altivec) Stan Shebs
2001-11-27 17:35                   ` Per Bothner
2001-11-27 12:34                 ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 11:16               ` Per Bothner
2001-11-27 10:47             ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes foraltivec) Ira Ruben
2001-11-19  6:19           ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for altivec) Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-19  7:13             ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-19  7:34               ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-19  8:01                 ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-19  9:18                   ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19 11:23                     ` Dale Johannesen
2001-11-27 14:46                       ` Dale Johannesen
2001-11-27 13:56                     ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 13:27                   ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-27 12:57                 ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-19  7:56               ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-19  8:31                 ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-27 13:44                   ` Richard Henderson
2001-11-19 10:23                 ` Mark Mitchell
2001-11-19 11:55                   ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for Joe Buck
2001-11-19 14:03                     ` Mark Mitchell
2001-11-19 14:46                       ` Joe Buck
2001-11-27 16:13                         ` Joe Buck
2001-11-20  0:56                       ` Devang Patel
2001-11-27 17:37                         ` Devang Patel
2001-11-20  5:17                       ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-20 11:15                         ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-20 17:09                           ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-20 17:26                             ` Joe Buck
2001-11-20 17:57                               ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-20 19:16                                 ` Neil Booth
2001-11-20 21:10                                   ` Input Stream Rewriting (Was: Target-specific Front-Ends?) Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-21  0:24                                     ` Neil Booth
2001-11-21  1:05                                       ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-21  4:38                                         ` Neil Booth
2001-11-28 13:57                                           ` Neil Booth
2001-11-28 13:25                                         ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-28 12:45                                       ` Neil Booth
2001-11-28 12:01                                     ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-28 11:06                                   ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for Neil Booth
2001-11-28  9:16                                 ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-28  9:11                               ` Joe Buck
2001-11-20 20:53                             ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-20 22:08                               ` Joe Buck
2001-11-28 12:26                                 ` Joe Buck
2001-11-20 23:37                               ` Per Bothner
2001-11-21  3:14                                 ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-21 12:32                                   ` David Edelsohn
2001-11-21 12:44                                     ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-28 18:40                                       ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-28 18:29                                     ` David Edelsohn
2001-11-28 13:36                                   ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-28 12:36                                 ` Per Bothner
2001-11-28 11:55                               ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-28  7:33                             ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 19:40                           ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-20 19:17                         ` Devang Patel [this message]
2001-11-28 11:09                           ` Devang Patel
2001-11-27 18:21                         ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 15:32                       ` Mark Mitchell
2001-12-04  0:14                       ` Alex Rosenberg
2001-12-04  0:33                         ` Mark Mitchell
2001-12-04 11:25                         ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 14:53                     ` Joe Buck
2001-11-27 14:36                   ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes foraltivec) Mark Mitchell
2001-11-27 13:19                 ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for altivec) Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 12:44               ` Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-19  8:34             ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19 12:54               ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-19 15:41                 ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19 19:08                   ` Dale Johannesen
2001-11-19 19:15                     ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 17:10                       ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 17:06                     ` Dale Johannesen
2001-11-27 16:56                   ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-27 15:06                 ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-27 13:44               ` Aldy Hernandez
2001-11-19  9:26             ` Bernd Schmidt
2001-11-19  9:53               ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-19 10:59                 ` Bernd Schmidt
2001-11-19 14:12                   ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 15:37                     ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 14:41                   ` Bernd Schmidt
2001-11-27 14:30                 ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 14:13               ` Bernd Schmidt
2001-11-19  9:40             ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-19 11:27               ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 14:50                 ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27 14:20               ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-27 12:24             ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-27  9:48           ` Stan Shebs
2001-11-26 23:45         ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes foraltivec) Ira Ruben
2001-11-26 22:22       ` Target-specific Front-Ends? (Was: front end changes for altivec) Stan Shebs
2001-11-26 18:47     ` Ziemowit Laski
2001-11-26 15:45   ` front end changes for altivec Joseph S. Myers
2001-11-26  2:51 ` Aldy Hernandez

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