From: "Scott Robert Ladd" <scott@coyotegulch.com>
To: "Mark Mitchell" <mark@codesourcery.com>,
"David Edelsohn" <dje@watson.ibm.com>
Cc: "Benjamin Kosnik" <bkoz@redhat.com>, <tromey@redhat.com>,
<jbuck@synopsys.com>, <gcc@gcc.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: GCC 3.3, GCC 3.4
Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:16:00 -0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <FKEAJLBKJCGBDJJIPJLJOEOIEIAA.scott@coyotegulch.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <94170000.1044308966@warlock.codesourcery.com>
Mark Mitchell wrote:
> The biggest real problem is that our developers are overbooked.
> As soon as they implement one feature so that it mostly works, they are
> off to implement another, often due to constraints from management. As
> a result, they don't have time to fix bugs, even bugs in the work they
> just did. We often get many of the regressions out, but a few hard ones
> linger.
>
(snip)
>
> We have nobody that can fill that supervisory role. It is simply not
> possible; the players have very divergent interests.
The above is a serious threat to the success of free software. The lack of
coherent cooperation is more troublesome than any worries about whether a
certain OS should be called "Linux" or "GNU/Linux".
A reliable, functional gcc is critical to the success of free software; it
is the foundation upon which the other packages rest. Somehow, we need to
impress this upon the commercial vendors who fund development. Freedom
exists because of cooperation; if the developers of gcc do not cooperate,
free software will not succeed in the long run.
> In some other free software projects, people do fill that supervisory
> role. Linus is the ultimate authority for Linux, for example. We
> have a different structure.
Linux can be rather chaotic, even with Linus' influence. True, he controls
the definitive distribution -- but there are many side branches and unique
versions for each distro. Remember the fracas over the Linux VM? Is it
possible that FSF gcc should define a core gcc, with possible branches for
vendor specific variants?
> I suggest the following:
>
> - Rather than free-form discussion on this mailing list, let's
> write up complete proposal(s) and post them on our web site.
Good idea. The process is already rolling for the next few releases; once
those are complete, we can try to improve the process.
..Scott
--
Scott Robert Ladd
Coyote Gulch Productions (http://www.coyotegulch.com)
Professional programming for science and engineering;
Interesting and unusual bits of very free code.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2003-02-03 22:16 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 115+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <200301312121.QAA22864@makai.watson.ibm.com>
2003-02-03 20:44 ` Tom Tromey
2003-02-03 21:02 ` Benjamin Kosnik
2003-02-03 21:10 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-02-03 21:31 ` David Edelsohn
2003-02-03 21:53 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-02-03 22:16 ` Scott Robert Ladd [this message]
2003-02-03 22:30 ` Jack Lloyd
2003-02-04 1:21 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-03 22:03 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-03 21:45 ` Benjamin Kosnik
2003-02-03 21:56 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-02-03 22:34 ` Tom Tromey
2003-02-03 23:03 ` David Edelsohn
2003-02-03 21:17 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2003-02-03 21:29 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-02-03 21:41 ` David Edelsohn
2003-02-03 21:42 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
[not found] <1044318563.708.247.camel@steven>
2003-02-04 1:13 ` Scott Robert Ladd
2003-02-04 0:31 Steven Bosscher
[not found] <1043976898.27601.ezmlm@gcc.gnu.org>
2003-02-03 19:50 ` Tim Josling
2003-02-03 21:54 ` Devang Patel
2003-02-03 22:32 ` Geoff Keating
2003-02-04 20:17 ` Tim Josling
2003-02-04 20:47 ` Matt Austern
2003-02-06 19:26 ` Tim Josling
2003-02-04 0:05 ` Tim Hollebeek
2003-02-04 20:07 ` Tim Josling
2003-02-04 2:03 ` Richard Henderson
2003-02-04 2:26 ` Zack Weinberg
2003-02-04 4:14 ` Daniel Berlin
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2003-02-02 6:17 Brad Lucier
[not found] <20030131165429.32d4d907.bkoz@redhat.com>
2003-02-01 1:32 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-02-01 1:43 ` Jan Hubicka
[not found] <200301312258.OAA14911@emf.net>
2003-02-01 0:00 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 16:29 Richard Kenner
2003-01-31 5:15 Wolfgang Bangerth
2003-01-31 10:39 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 17:54 ` Wolfgang Bangerth
2003-01-31 0:37 Benjamin Kosnik
2003-01-31 0:52 ` Zack Weinberg
2003-01-31 1:16 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2003-01-31 1:34 ` Zack Weinberg
2003-01-31 17:53 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-01-31 1:14 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2003-01-31 1:25 ` Benjamin Kosnik
2003-01-31 1:27 ` Gerald Pfeifer
2003-01-31 1:52 ` Benjamin Kosnik
2003-01-31 20:59 ` Joe Buck
2003-01-31 22:44 ` Tom Tromey
2003-01-31 6:09 ` Joe Buck
2003-01-31 7:39 ` Zack Weinberg
2003-01-31 20:43 ` Geoff Keating
[not found] ` <200301312127.QAA22861@caip.rutgers.edu>
[not found] ` <jmy9516lsd.fsf@desire.geoffk.org>
2003-02-01 4:32 ` Kaveh R. Ghazi
2003-01-31 11:52 ` Tom Lord
2003-01-31 20:52 ` Joe Buck
[not found] ` <200301312311.PAA15835@emf.net>
2003-02-01 1:28 ` Joe Buck
2003-02-01 1:49 ` Michel LESPINASSE
2003-01-31 21:07 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 13:50 ` Joseph S. Myers
2003-01-31 18:02 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-01-31 19:05 ` Devang Patel
2003-01-31 20:05 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-01-31 20:37 ` Graham Stott
2003-01-31 20:57 ` Devang Patel
2003-01-31 21:35 ` Tom Tromey
2003-01-31 21:02 ` Joseph S. Myers
2003-01-31 21:13 ` Joel Sherrill
2003-01-31 21:21 ` Devang Patel
2003-01-31 22:59 ` Joel Sherrill
2003-01-31 23:42 ` Devang Patel
2003-01-31 19:44 ` Matt Austern
2003-01-31 20:23 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-02-01 0:21 ` Michael Matz
2003-02-01 3:18 ` David Edelsohn
2003-01-31 20:31 ` Richard Henderson
2003-01-31 22:59 ` Andreas Jaeger
2003-01-31 23:12 ` Phil Edwards
2003-01-30 23:53 Karel Gardas
2003-01-31 0:13 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-30 20:00 Benjamin Kosnik
2003-01-30 21:29 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-01-30 21:42 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 13:31 ` Nathan Sidwell
2003-01-30 22:15 ` Joseph S. Myers
2003-01-30 22:56 ` Neil Booth
2003-01-30 22:58 ` Michael S. Zick
2003-01-30 23:22 ` Michael Matz
2003-01-30 23:25 ` Michael S. Zick
2003-01-31 11:16 ` Bernd Jendrissek
2003-01-30 23:55 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 0:11 ` Paolo Carlini
2003-01-31 0:15 ` Neil Booth
2003-01-31 0:29 ` Phil Edwards
2003-01-31 0:30 ` Neil Booth
2003-01-31 2:08 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 16:01 ` Michael S. Zick
2003-01-31 0:41 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 0:17 ` Benjamin Kosnik
2003-01-31 0:21 ` Neil Booth
2003-01-31 0:25 ` Matt Austern
2003-01-31 1:10 ` Benjamin Kosnik
2003-01-31 1:22 ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2003-01-31 1:55 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 1:54 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-31 2:40 ` Geoff Keating
2003-01-31 12:54 ` Richard Earnshaw
2003-01-31 20:22 ` Geoff Keating
2003-01-30 11:22 Mark Mitchell
2003-01-30 19:07 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-30 19:58 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-01-30 20:15 ` Mike Stump
2003-01-30 20:59 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-01-30 19:20 ` Matt Austern
2003-01-30 19:52 ` Mark Mitchell
2003-01-30 20:11 ` David Edelsohn
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