* http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html @ 2001-12-06 14:11 Matthew Langford 2001-12-07 7:04 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Matthew Langford @ 2001-12-06 14:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gcc What's up with this page? It lists only one US mirror, which is constantly full. Wait, there are 3 Polish mirrors and only one US link? Can't you at least list three? Aren't there a bunch of sunsite mirrors? Why aren't they listed? -- MattLangford ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2001-12-06 14:11 http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford @ 2001-12-07 7:04 ` Gerald Pfeifer 2001-12-07 14:20 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Gerald Pfeifer @ 2001-12-07 7:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthew Langford; +Cc: gcc On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Matthew Langford wrote: > What's up with this page? I'm not a native speaker, but which part of "Please let us know if you are mirroring the GCC pages so we can note it here!" was unclear to you? We only list those mirror sites that inform us that they want to be listed. (I'll happily apply a patch of yours to improve the wording on that page. Really!) Gerald -- Gerald "Jerry" pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2001-12-07 7:04 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer @ 2001-12-07 14:20 ` Matthew Langford 2001-12-12 16:54 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Matthew Langford @ 2001-12-07 14:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gerald Pfeifer; +Cc: gcc On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Gerald Pfeifer wrote: > On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Matthew Langford wrote: > > What's up with this page? > > I'm not a native speaker, but which part of "Please let us know if you > are mirroring the GCC pages so we can note it here!" was unclear to you? > > We only list those mirror sites that inform us that they want to be > listed. Do these sites have to mirror all the GCC pages or just the release directories? If all, why? It seems to me you have a problem getting people to mirror GCC. And yet, as I mentioned, there must be a gazillion GNU mirror sites. You _know_ they are mirroring, and they are mirroring a gzipped release of your software. Why not mention _them_ on your downloads page? It's all about _downloads_ and not total site mirroring. As long you make sure the GNU site is kept semi-constantly up to date, a mirror of GNU is a mirror of you. You are making people come to you, like it's a special privilege to mirror GCC, instead of looking to list already available mirrors, so people can get your software and make things happen. > (I'll happily apply a patch of yours to improve the wording on that > page. Really!) Okay, pseudo-patch: stick in a link to http://www.gnu.org/order/ftp.html, saying these sites may be slightly slower to update, but are preferrable to a trans-oceanic link. And then set cron jobs to make sure the GNU ftp sites are mirroring at least the latest stable release. -- MattLangford ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2001-12-07 14:20 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford @ 2001-12-12 16:54 ` Phil Edwards 2001-12-12 17:23 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Phil Edwards @ 2001-12-12 16:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthew Langford; +Cc: Gerald Pfeifer, gcc Matthew Langford wrote: > Gerald Pfeifer wrote: > > We only list those mirror sites that inform us that they want to be > > listed. > > Do these sites have to mirror all the GCC pages or just the release > directories? Sites can mirror whatever subset of stuff they want to mirror. It's their diskspace, after all. > You _know_ they are mirroring, and they are mirroring a > gzipped release of your software. Why not mention _them_ on your > downloads page? Maybe they don't want the entire world downloading from them. People choose to mirror software for reasons /other/ than making it available to everyone else out there. I used to mirror a subset of the Linux kernel patches repository, but it was for me and my colleagues in the same building, not for the rest of the planet. Listing me as a "mirror site" would have been harmful, not helpful. > You are making people come to you, like it's a special privilege to mirror > GCC, In a way it is: known mirror sites are allowed to bypass some (all?) of the connection limits on the FTP server. Phil -- If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2001-12-12 16:54 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards @ 2001-12-12 17:23 ` Matthew Langford 2001-12-13 11:41 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Matthew Langford @ 2001-12-12 17:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Phil Edwards; +Cc: Gerald Pfeifer, gcc On Wed, 12 Dec 2001, Phil Edwards wrote: > Matthew Langford wrote: > > You _know_ they are mirroring, and they are mirroring a > > gzipped release of your software. Why not mention _them_ on your > > downloads page? > > Maybe they don't want the entire world downloading from them. > > People choose to mirror software for reasons /other/ than making it > available to everyone else out there. I used to mirror a subset of the > Linux kernel patches repository, but it was for me and my colleagues > in the same building, not for the rest of the planet. Listing me as a > "mirror site" would have been harmful, not helpful. "They" was a reference to public sites mirroring GNU. They are already listed on the GNU mirror web page. This is a superset of GCC. If they are willing to be listed to the world as carrying the entire GNU software universe (which includes the GCC stuff), they are already mirroring the main part, the Download, of your distribution. It would be helpful to visitors to mention there are alternatives to the very few listed on your web page. Or perhaps you like everyone in the US and Canada tagging the network connections of the poor saps who walked to your ivory tower and volunteered their mirrors? The link to the actual gcc.org download is spelled out but not an active link. I suppose this is to strongly encourage people to use the mirrors. But then, you don't have many mirrors listed: one for the North American continent, two for South America, and one for Australia, from what I saw. Oh well, yank it from another continent. > > You are making people come to you, like it's a special privilege to mirror > > GCC, > > In a way it is: known mirror sites are allowed to bypass some (all?) of > the connection limits on the FTP server. Maybe you are looking at things completely backward. Instead of guarding the software, and worrying about who is coming in to steal the software and rob your bandwidth, you could think of it as _distributing_ your releases, and how to _put_ it on as many servers as possible. In that direction, making use of the existing GNU mirroring system (both by web-mention and by update-seeding) would be most helpful, I think. From the first viewpoint you seem to be doing nicely; the second one, you are adequate only for yourselves, through CVS, and Europe and Japan. -- MattLangford ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2001-12-12 17:23 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford @ 2001-12-13 11:41 ` Phil Edwards 2001-12-13 15:28 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Phil Edwards @ 2001-12-13 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthew Langford; +Cc: Gerald Pfeifer, gcc On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 07:14:42PM -0600, Matthew Langford wrote: > "They" was a reference to public sites mirroring GNU. They are already > listed on the GNU mirror web page. Ah, now I see what you're saying. Pronouns missing an antecedent are fun... Yes, there is not as much communication between the GNU sysadmins and us as could be hoped for. Mostly it's nothing more than a lack of time on the part of the volunteers at either end. No hoarding, no ivory-tower syndrome, just lack of time. If you'd like to contact the sysadmins of ftp.gnu.org and ask them whether the mirror list is up-to-date, and if it is, provide a patch to mirrors.html, that would be a good way to contribute. > > In a way it is: known mirror sites are allowed to bypass some (all?) of > > the connection limits on the FTP server. > > Maybe you are looking at things completely backward. Instead of guarding > the software, and worrying about who is coming in to steal the software > and rob your bandwidth, I'll ignore the rest of your flames and just explain this: gcc.gnu.org is extremely overloaded. For that reason anonymous FTP has been severely restricted (and I think it's been disallowed completely on some of the more popular projects). We're trying to move anonymous CVS access off onto another system also. It's not about "robbing bandwidth," it's about having some bandwidth left over so that the developers can actually check in code changes. :-) Right now CVS commits of multiple files can often get dropped partway through. That doesn't benefit /anyone/. Phil -- If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2001-12-13 11:41 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards @ 2001-12-13 15:28 ` Gerald Pfeifer 2001-12-13 16:26 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards 2001-12-13 16:59 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Gerald Pfeifer @ 2001-12-13 15:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matthew Langford, Phil Edwards; +Cc: gcc On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Matthew Langford wrote: > And yet, as I mentioned, there must be a gazillion GNU mirror sites. > You _know_ they are mirroring, and they are mirroring a gzipped release > of your software. I assume you missed the fact that http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.95/gcc-2.95.html http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.95/gcc-2.95.1.html http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.95/gcc-2.95.2.html http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.95/gcc-2.95.3.html and http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-3.0/ has been have been referring to the GNU mirror sites for years, right? > Why not mention _them_ on your downloads page? That's a good suggestion, and I will try to add this tomorrow. (Note, though, that the GNU site only carries a subset of what's on gcc.gnu.org and most of its mirrors, namely current GCC releases.) > [...] the poor saps who walked to your ivory tower and volunteered their > mirrors? Please tone down. Phil is a volunteer, I am a volunteer, and most others here are volunteers as well; no money, little honor, few thanks. > The link to the actual gcc.org download is spelled out but not an active > link. I suppose this is to strongly encourage people to use the mirrors. Right. On Thu, 13 Dec 2001, Phil Edwards wrote: > Mostly it's nothing more than a lack of time on the part of the > volunteers at either end. No hoarding, no ivory-tower syndrome, just > lack of time. Exactly! > I'll ignore the rest of your flames and just explain this: gcc.gnu.org > is extremely overloaded. For that reason anonymous FTP has been severely > restricted (and I think it's been disallowed completely on some of the > more popular projects). We're trying to move anonymous CVS access off > onto another system also. Yup, and that seems to work fine now; I already have a patch and will update the corresponding GCC page tomorrow. (Again, Matthew, also this has been handled by volunteers exclusively.) Gerald -- Gerald "Jerry" pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2001-12-13 15:28 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer @ 2001-12-13 16:26 ` Phil Edwards 2001-12-13 16:59 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Phil Edwards @ 2001-12-13 16:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gerald Pfeifer; +Cc: gcc On Fri, Dec 14, 2001 at 12:22:48AM +0100, Gerald Pfeifer wrote: > Please tone down. Phil is a volunteer, I am a volunteer, and most others > here are volunteers as well; no money, little honor, few thanks. ^^^^^^^^ Waitaminute. The GCC users haven't been mailing you the monthly cheques?? Oops. Phil -- If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2001-12-13 15:28 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer 2001-12-13 16:26 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards @ 2001-12-13 16:59 ` Matthew Langford 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Matthew Langford @ 2001-12-13 16:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Gerald Pfeifer; +Cc: Phil Edwards, gcc On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Gerald Pfeifer wrote: > On Fri, 7 Dec 2001, Matthew Langford wrote: > > And yet, as I mentioned, there must be a gazillion GNU mirror sites. > > You _know_ they are mirroring, and they are mirroring a gzipped release > > of your software. > > I assume you missed the fact that > http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.95/gcc-2.95.html > http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.95/gcc-2.95.1.html > http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.95/gcc-2.95.2.html > http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-2.95/gcc-2.95.3.html > and > http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-3.0/ has been > have been referring to the GNU mirror sites for years, right? I see that, and that's exactly what I was requesting, but for the Mirrors page. Yes, I did miss that. Problem is, I was looking at the libstdc++ page, which does not have that link. Nor will you find it if you jump straight to "Mirrors" to begin downloading (eg, you already know what the latest release is, don't want to read about what it is/features it has/bugs it fixes/all about free/open software, just want to get it to start trying to build). Nor, if you go to the Installation link, then to Downloading GCC... "yeah, that's what I want! Wha...? It doesn't have actual downloading information, it just tells me what I get if I were to download at some future point. Then I must go to the Releases page..." and right away I see "mirror sites" and I've once again missed the link to available North American downloads. My thought is that for the (most?) common case of wanting to get the latest gcc source or binaries, minimizing the number of links clicked and reading required (ie, on the sidebar or at the top of the page) would be nice. > > Why not mention _them_ on your downloads page? > > That's a good suggestion, and I will try to add this tomorrow. (Note, > though, that the GNU site only carries a subset of what's on gcc.gnu.org > and most of its mirrors, namely current GCC releases.) Thank you. Yes, I realize the subset bit, and would think it even proper if you mentioned this limitation near the link. > > [...] the poor saps who walked to your ivory tower and volunteered their > > mirrors? > > Please tone down. Phil is a volunteer, I am a volunteer, and most others > here are volunteers as well; no money, little honor, few thanks. I understand, and apologize, in that I probably misconstrued your response. If someone had pointed out the links mentioned above, I would have been somewhat satisfied. Instead, someone defended the fact that downloaders were limited to a very lacking mirror list (as in lacking enough mirrors), which is clearly sub-optimal. And then defended against adding to the too-small list, because it was such a privilege to have unrestricted FTP access. The overwhelming sense was that the gcc team could care less if people could reach their software. Not good. It didn't help that after several days of trying to compile KDE for Solaris, I realized that it used too many g++-isms and would not compile (for me, at least) under the Sun CC compiler--some "file level access" complaint about a struct with member functions used to instantiate a subclassed templated class. Yech. It's some comfort that gcc 3.x probably croaks at this, as well as Sun's compiler. Then I find our gcc had been compiled without shared libs, so I was going to have to recompile gcc, as well as recompile a ton of other libs and add-ons (libxml, libxslt, Qt, then kdexxx). I wanted to get gcc 2.95.3 as quickly as possible to get on with it. > > I'll ignore the rest of your flames and just explain this: gcc.gnu.org > > is extremely overloaded. For that reason anonymous FTP has been severely > > restricted (and I think it's been disallowed completely on some of the > > more popular projects). We're trying to move anonymous CVS access off > > onto another system also. > > Yup, and that seems to work fine now; I already have a patch and will > update the corresponding GCC page tomorrow. (Again, Matthew, also this > has been handled by volunteers exclusively.) Understood. Please understand me: for your efforts to have meaning, your software needs to be distributed to the people who want to use it. It is in your best interest to work around the issues surrounding gcc.gnu.org and the limits on gcc-specific mirrors, and provide as easy a path as possible for obtaining your software. That was why I took the time to send you a note about the problem. -- MattLangford ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html @ 2000-05-31 0:28 Joerg Faschingbauer 2000-05-31 11:30 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Joerg Faschingbauer @ 2000-05-31 0:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: gcc The mirror list's Austria entry ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/gnu/egcs/ does not exist. It should read ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/gnu/gcc/ instead. Yours, Joerg ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html 2000-05-31 0:28 http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Joerg Faschingbauer @ 2000-05-31 11:30 ` Gerald Pfeifer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Gerald Pfeifer @ 2000-05-31 11:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Joerg Faschingbauer; +Cc: gcc On Wed, 31 May 2000, Joerg Faschingbauer wrote: > The mirror list's Austria entry [should read] > > ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/gnu/gcc/ Thanks for the hint, I just updated that link. Gerald PS: And yes, that server is not too far away from my office. ;-) -- Gerald "Jerry" pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2001-12-14 0:54 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2001-12-06 14:11 http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford 2001-12-07 7:04 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer 2001-12-07 14:20 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford 2001-12-12 16:54 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards 2001-12-12 17:23 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford 2001-12-13 11:41 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards 2001-12-13 15:28 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer 2001-12-13 16:26 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Phil Edwards 2001-12-13 16:59 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Matthew Langford -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below -- 2000-05-31 0:28 http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Joerg Faschingbauer 2000-05-31 11:30 ` http://gcc.gnu.org/mirrors.html Gerald Pfeifer
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