Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Gerald Pfeifer]

Dear EGCS Developers,

this is to introduce myself as the ``new'' web pages maintainer and
to apologize that I have not been more active during those three weeks
since I assumed maintainership.

For personal reasons -- among others, I essantially had to fill out two
full-time positions during that period -- I was practically blocked from
doing real work on egcs, and I will be basically offline next week, but
then I expect to have significantly more time available.

Here a short list, of what I expect to be me first projects:
 
 o Take some load away from Jeff.

 o Improve the FAQ. Move away obsolete entries to a separate page.

 o Improve appearance (colors? News items probably should become more
   central again;...)

 o Introduce navigation.

 o Make some stuff (page footers) more automatic, yet easy to use.

   I.e., all/most of these changes should not require any additional
   skills for contributors, most of that should be performed ``behind
   the scenes''.

We (i.e., Marc Lehmann and myself) agreed that probably the best
way to handle that (and more ;-) ) is to use some macro processing
tools and I have suggested to employ MetaHTML.

More later, hints welcome...

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < Pine.GSO.4.05.9810150958130.453-100000@nashira.dbai.tuwien.ac.at >
you write:
  > Here a short list, of what I expect to be me first projects:
  >  
  >  o Take some load away from Jeff.
A good thing.

  >  o Improve the FAQ. Move away obsolete entries to a separate page.
Yes.  Definitely.  The FAQ is rather ad-hoc too.  You actually have to read
most of it to find out if anything is relavent.  Not good.


  >  o Improve appearance (colors? News items probably should become more
  >    central again;...)
Yup.  Maybe keep the most recent 4 or 5 items on the main page, then the
rest elsewhere.


  >  o Introduce navigation.
Yes.  Consider how difficult it is to find the directions for using cvs or
cvsweb as a key example.

Color is good.  A logo would be great (any volunteers?)

  >  o Make some stuff (page footers) more automatic, yet easy to use.
Yup.  A standard layout would be a major improvement :-)


  > We (i.e., Marc Lehmann and myself) agreed that probably the best
  > way to handle that (and more ;-) ) is to use some macro processing
  > tools and I have suggested to employ MetaHTML.
Fine by me.

jeff

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[David S. Miller]

   Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:50:16 -0600
   From: Jeffrey A Law <law@cygnus.com>

     >  o Introduce navigation.
   Yes.  Consider how difficult it is to find the directions for using cvs or
   cvsweb as a key example.

   Color is good.  A logo would be great (any volunteers?)

My fiance' was bored and likes to play around with GIMP.
Any takers? :-)

http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/

She's open to suggestions and can tweak them to fit whatever desires
people have for an EGCS official logo :-)

Later,
David S. Miller
davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Joe Buck]

> My fiance' was bored and likes to play around with GIMP.
> Any takers? :-)
> 
> http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/
> 
> She's open to suggestions and can tweak them to fit whatever desires
> people have for an EGCS official logo :-)

A baby gnu emerging from an egg.

(make sure it's a JPEG not a GIF or we have yet another GNU purity
problem).

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 199810172238.PAA00938@atrus.synopsys.com >you write:
  > 
  > > My fiance' was bored and likes to play around with GIMP.
  > > Any takers? :-)
  > > 
  > > http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/
  > > 
  > > She's open to suggestions and can tweak them to fit whatever desires
  > > people have for an EGCS official logo :-)
  > 
  > A baby gnu emerging from an egg.
I like it!  


jeff

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[David S. Miller]

   Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:30:32 -0600
   From: Jeffrey A Law <law@cygnus.com>

     In message < 199810172238.PAA00938@atrus.synopsys.com >you write:
     > > She's open to suggestions and can tweak them to fit whatever desires
     > > people have for an EGCS official logo :-)
     > 
     > A baby gnu emerging from an egg.

   I like it!  

Tada:

http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg5.jpg

:-)))

Later,
David S. Miller
davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 199810181209.FAA23207@dm.cobaltmicro.com >you write:
  > Tada:
  > 
  > http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg5.jpg
Cool.  So how do we add a little color? :-) :-0

It was a little difficult for the brain to parse this morning with the 
strict b/w image. :-)

jeff

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[David S. Miller]

   Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:02:27 -0600
   From: Jeffrey A Law <law@cygnus.com>

     In message < 199810181209.FAA23207@dm.cobaltmicro.com >you write:
     > Tada:
     > 
     > http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg5.jpg

   Cool.  So how do we add a little color? :-) :-0

   It was a little difficult for the brain to parse this morning with the 
   strict b/w image. :-)

Color version is there, eg7.jpg

Later,
David S. Miller
davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 199810202133.OAA20489@dm.cobaltmicro.com >you write:
  >    It was a little difficult for the brain to parse this morning with the 
  >    strict b/w image. :-)
  > 
  > Color version is there, eg7.jpg
Awsome!

Gerald -- want to integrate this into the pages somewhere for the project?

Thanks!

jeff

ps.  It was good to meet you on Tues.  We'll have to get together again next
time I'm in Sunnyvale.

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Jeffrey A Law wrote:
>> [EGCS Logo]
> Gerald -- want to integrate this into the pages somewhere for the project?

Yes, I plan do that. Depending on David's reply to some previous mail with
some suggestions the logo may become ``life'' this week, at least on the
main page...

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[David S. Miller]

   Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 01:33:24 +0100 (MET)
   From: Gerald Pfeifer <pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at>

   Yes, I plan do that. Depending on David's reply to some previous
   mail with some suggestions the logo may become ``life'' this week,
   at least on the main page...

She got bored while waiting for people to respond so she has touched
the logo up a bit:

http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg9.jpg

Please get this going asap, she's getting tired of waiting for her
work to get some use :-)

Later,
David S. Miller
davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, David S. Miller wrote:
> http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg9.jpg
> 
> Please get this going asap, she's getting tired of waiting for her
> work to get some use :-)

RCS file: /egcs/carton/cvsfiles/wwwdocs/htdocs/logo.jpg,v
Working file: logo.jpg
 :
revision 1.1
date: 1998/10/28 12:25:59;  author: gerald;  state: Exp;
New EGCS logo contributed by Nina Mazur.


Thanks!
Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 199810280211.SAA05302@dm.cobaltmicro.com >you write:
  >    Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 01:33:24 +0100 (MET)
  >    From: Gerald Pfeifer <pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at>
  > 
  >    Yes, I plan do that. Depending on David's reply to some previous
  >    mail with some suggestions the logo may become ``life'' this week,
  >    at least on the main page...
  > 
  > She got bored while waiting for people to respond so she has touched
  > the logo up a bit:
  > 
  > http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg9.jpg
  > 
  > Please get this going asap, she's getting tired of waiting for her
  > work to get some use :-)
Appears to be live on the home page now! :-) :-)

jeff

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Joe Buck]

David Miller writes:

> http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg5.jpg

Very nice!  If your wife isn't bored with this by now (she did it,
right?), a color version would be cool.

Joe

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[David S. Miller]

   From: Joe Buck <jbuck@Synopsys.COM>
   Date: Sun, 18 Oct 98 22:41:34 PDT

   David Miller writes:

   > http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg5.jpg

   Very nice!  If your wife isn't bored with this by now (she did it,
   right?), a color version would be cool.

Ok, how does everyone like it?

http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg7.jpg

Later,
David S. Miller
davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, David S. Miller wrote:
> Ok, how does everyone like it?

Nice!

> http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg7.jpg

Please don't get this wrong, these are just some remarks based on my
experience in a prepress environment (where I have been responsible
for computing):

 o I'd suggest to make the text less 3D and ``sharper''.

 o I noticed that there are some (orange) pixels on the outside of
   the egg; also the horns have some non-white pixels.

 o Could the (white) background be made transparent?

 o Perhaps the gnu could become *slightly* larger?


BTW, do we need a copyright form signed by your fiance? Jeff?

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[David S. Miller]

   Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:26:09 +0100 (MET)
   From: Gerald Pfeifer <pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at>

   BTW, do we need a copyright form signed by your fiance? Jeff?

I surely hope not.  Actually all she did was integration one of the
existing GNU logos and drew the egg around it.

Later,
David S. Miller
davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Joe Buck]

>    BTW, do we need a copyright form signed by your fiance? Jeff?
> 
> I surely hope not.  Actually all she did was integration one of the
> existing GNU logos and drew the egg around it.

I don't think that the egcs web pages need to be so strict ... there
is no question whether she is giving permission for us to use it.
Let's just put then @$!*ing thing on the web page, OK? :-)

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 199810280210.SAA05294@dm.cobaltmicro.com >you write:
  >    Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:26:09 +0100 (MET)
  >    From: Gerald Pfeifer <pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at>
  > 
  >    BTW, do we need a copyright form signed by your fiance? Jeff?
  > 
  > I surely hope not.  Actually all she did was integration one of the
  > existing GNU logos and drew the egg around it.
Good question.  I believe we're OK on this one.

jeff

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[David Edelsohn]

>>>>> Gerald Pfeifer writes:

Gerald> o I noticed that there are some (orange) pixels on the outside of
Gerald> the egg; also the horns have some non-white pixels.

	I think that some of this is due to the lossy JPEG algorithm.  GIF
probably would be better for art like this, but there are patent problems
with the GIF format preventing its use.

David

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Joe Buck]

>  o Could the (white) background be made transparent?

Not an option (political obstacles).  It would then be a GIF.  GIFs
are GNUically incorrect because of the Unisys patents.

Anyway, even for transparent GIFs you have to know the background color
or else you get jaggies.  Only with formats like PNG that have an alpha
channel can you do transparency correctly (a pixel can be 64%
transparent).

I think we could use the thing as is.  Just set the page background to the
same color as the image background.

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Joe Buck wrote:
>>  o Could the (white) background be made transparent?
> Not an option (political obstacles).  It would then be a GIF.  GIFs
> are GNUically incorrect because of the Unisys patents.

Ouch, I forgot...

> I think we could use the thing as is.  Just set the page background to the
> same color as the image background.

Done. For now I have manually copied the color scheme for our main page
from sourceware.cygnus.com, but I'm working on some general solution so
that in the future we'll be able to easily change stuff like that for
all pages easily.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Rask Ingemann Lambertsen]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 963 bytes --]

Den 28-Okt-98 18:19:18 skrev Joe Buck følgende om "Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)":
>>  o Could the (white) background be made transparent?

> Not an option (political obstacles).  It would then be a GIF.  GIFs
> are GNUically incorrect because of the Unisys patents.

   What is the problem? Make it a PNG image instead. It'll be smaller than a
GIF one too.

Regards,

/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯T¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯\
| Rask Ingemann Lambertsen       | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk  |
| Registered Phase5 developer    | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ |
| A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64)    | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC  |
|       User - a technical term used by computer pros. See idiot.        |

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jason Merrill]

>>>>> David S Miller <davem@dm.cobaltmicro.com> writes:

 > http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg5.jpg

I love it!

Jason

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Nathan Myers]

David S. Miller wrote:
> 
>    Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:30:32 -0600
>    From: Jeffrey A Law <law@cygnus.com>
> 
>      In message < 199810172238.PAA00938@atrus.synopsys.com >you write:
>      > > She's open to suggestions and can tweak them to fit whatever desires
>      > > people have for an EGCS official logo :-)
>      >
>      > A baby gnu emerging from an egg.
> 
>    I like it!
> 
> Tada:
> 
> http://dm.cobaltmicro.com/~ninka/egcs/eg5.jpg

It's traditional to leave a bit of eggshell stuck on its head.

Nathan Myers
ncm@cantrip.org

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Hasan Diwan]

On Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 03:38:44PM -0700, Joe Buck wrote:
> A baby gnu emerging from an egg.
What exactly is a gnu?
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Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 19981018103851.A31470@iamhome.ml.org >you write:
  > On Sat, Oct 17, 1998 at 03:38:44PM -0700, Joe Buck wrote:
  > > A baby gnu emerging from an egg.
  > What exactly is a gnu?
According to webster:

large African antelope with an oxlike head and a horselike tail


jeff

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Bernd Schmidt]

On Sun, 18 Oct 1998, Hasan Diwan wrote:

> What exactly is a gnu?

The GNU is a sinister, lurking presence in the deep places of the earth.
It's favourite diet is Software Hoarder, and its insatiable appetite is
tempered only by its fear of light.  None have ever seen a GNU by the
light of day, and few have survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale.

Bernd

[those of you who think I've gone mad should go play Infocom's Zork
trilogy, a classic in text adventures ;)] 

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Joe Buck]

> > What exactly is a gnu?

Bernd writes:

> The GNU is a sinister, lurking presence in the deep places of the earth.

Um, that's a grue.  "You are likely to be eaten by a grue." :-)

> [those of you who think I've gone mad should go play Infocom's Zork
> trilogy, a classic in text adventures ;)] 

The game predates Infocom ... it started as free software.  In fact, I
think that the text you quote was originally written at MIT by one of
RMS's old AI Lab cronies, giving your pun a meaning you may not have
suspected.  My first experience of the net was in 1978, when a fellow
student dialed a local telephone number, typed some magic incantations to
get onto the ARPAnet, and then logged into a guest account at MIT, where
we played a version of what ultimately became Zork.  (Yes, I'm old).

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Randy Joiner]

That's grue, or gru, IIRC.  note the r.

Still, apt description at times.  :)

On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Bernd Schmidt wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Oct 1998, Hasan Diwan wrote:
> 
> > What exactly is a gnu?
> 
> The GNU is a sinister, lurking presence in the deep places of the earth.
> It's favourite diet is Software Hoarder, and its insatiable appetite is
> tempered only by its fear of light.  None have ever seen a GNU by the
> light of day, and few have survived its fearsome jaws to tell the tale.
> 
> Bernd
> 
> [those of you who think I've gone mad should go play Infocom's Zork
> trilogy, a classic in text adventures ;)] 
> 

__
Randall Joiner,  Prestidictator/Son-of-a-bezelwort/Sysadmin
This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird.
-- Man page for Perl Data Structures (man perldata)

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Theodore Papadopoulo]

	Just another idea...

Egcs mailings lists are full of acronyms and concepts that are not always easy
to understand for everyone (CSE, GCSE, BIV, GIV, reload, flow, ...), and more
are appearing everytime (the last one I remember of is SSA). 
Carefully reading the mails give clues and after a while, the meaning 
could be guessed but....

What about adding a jargon page describing very shortly some of these?

	Theo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Theodore Papadopoulo
Email: Theodore.Papadopoulo@sophia.inria.fr Tel: (33) 04 92 38 76 01
 --------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 199810191004.MAA11074@mururoa.inria.fr >you write:
  > Egcs mailings lists are full of acronyms and concepts that are not always
  > easy to understand for everyone (CSE, GCSE, BIV, GIV, reload, flow, ...),
  > and more
  > are appearing everytime (the last one I remember of is SSA). 
  > Carefully reading the mails give clues and after a while, the meaning 
  > could be guessed but....
  > 
  > What about adding a jargon page describing very shortly some of these?
Sounds like an excellent idea to me!

You can add PRE, CPROP, LICM, LCM to the initial list :-)  I'm sure there's
more.


jeff

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Bernd Schmidt]

> Egcs mailings lists are full of acronyms and concepts that are not always easy
> to understand for everyone (CSE, GCSE, BIV, GIV, reload, flow, ...), and more
> are appearing everytime (the last one I remember of is SSA). 

Some of the compiler's passes have fairly large comments at their top which
explain the basic ideas.  I've often thought that these explanatios might be
more useful if they were extracted and combined into a coherent document.

Bernd

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Jeffrey A Law wrote:
>>  o Improve the FAQ. Move away obsolete entries to a separate page.
> Yes.  Definitely.  The FAQ is rather ad-hoc too.  You actually have to read
> most of it to find out if anything is relavent.  Not good.

As you may have noticed, I already started some FAQ cleanup and I'd like
to encourage everyone on this list to submit additional FAQ entries or
updates to existing ones.

Plus, please also advise if you consider some entries obsolete.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Charles M. Hannum]

> The GNU is a sinister, lurking presence in the deep places of the earth.
> It's favourite diet is Software Hoarder, and its insatiable appetite is
> tempered only by its fear of light.

Actually, it's fear of vines and big leafy plants.

(Note: This is sort of an inside joke about someone Important to the
GNU Project.  B-))

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Jason Merrill]

>>>>> David Edelsohn <dje@watson.ibm.com> writes:

>>>>> Gerald Pfeifer writes:
 Gerald> o I noticed that there are some (orange) pixels on the outside of
 Gerald> the egg; also the horns have some non-white pixels.

 > 	I think that some of this is due to the lossy JPEG algorithm.  GIF
 > probably would be better for art like this, but there are patent problems
 > with the GIF format preventing its use.

A high-quality (lower compression) JPEG is just as good as GIF.  And then
there's PNG...:)

Jason

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Joe Buck]

> >>>>> Gerald Pfeifer writes:
>  Gerald> o I noticed that there are some (orange) pixels on the outside of
>  Gerald> the egg; also the horns have some non-white pixels.

> >>>>> David Edelsohn <dje@watson.ibm.com> writes:
>  > 	I think that some of this is due to the lossy JPEG algorithm.  GIF
>  > probably would be better for art like this, but there are patent problems
>  > with the GIF format preventing its use.

If this is the problem, whoever generated the JPEG must have used an
extremely low quality setting.  JPEG's loss is controllable.  And GIF
is not lossless, because the step of quantizing to a 256-color palette
causes far more loss for a full-color image than JPEG does.

> A high-quality (lower compression) JPEG is just as good as GIF.  And then
> there's PNG...:)

Yes, except for animations PNG totally dominates GIF (except that only the
latest browser versions support it).

Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)

[Rask Ingemann Lambertsen]

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Den 29-Okt-98 17:01:02 skrev Joe Buck følgende om "Re: Egcs Web Pages (Maintainer)":

> Yes, except for animations PNG totally dominates GIF (except that only the
> latest browser versions support it).

   Having used a PNG capable browser since late 1995 (i.e. three years ago),
I have problems with that statement. Perhaps you meant to say that among
_Netscape_ versions, only the latest ones support PNG?

Regard,

/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯T¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯\
| Rask Ingemann Lambertsen       | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk  |
| Registered Phase5 developer    | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ |
| A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64)    | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC  |
|        If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing.        |