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From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
To: Tim Hollebeek <tim@franck.Princeton.EDU>
Cc: mark@codesourcery.com, rth@cygnus.com, craig@jcb-sc.com,
	davem@redhat.com, chip@perlsupport.com, egcs@egcs.cygnus.com
Subject: Re: Linux and aliasing?
Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:44:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.990607103826.22680A-100000@penguin.transmeta.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <199906071936.MAA05494@franck.Princeton.EDU>

On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Tim Hollebeek wrote:
> 
> This is going to happen even with the Torvalds hack.  If they are
> writing code that ignores the aliasing rules, not every single
> instance will conform to the Torvalds "all pointer trickery happens in
> a single expression" coding style.  Hence their binary will still fail.

Yes. But it's less likely to fail.

However, somebody else did suggest just a warning (for the "torvalds case"
and potentially for other cases that are deemed suspect), and I certainly
agree with that as a kind of "uhhuh, somebody is doing something
dangerous". 

However, even then I think we'd _also_ need to have a syntactically
cleaner way of fixing it - if a warning is generated it obviously would
need to have some way of disabling the warning on a case-by-case basis
(with either saying "it's ok to alias - don't warn me" or a "oh, you were
right, this could alias, please consider it to be in alias set zero").

I completely agree with that kind of extension - it's obviously better
than mine, but it's also much more ambitious than my quick and simple
hack.

> Then we'll have to explain two things to them instead of just one: the
> ANSI rules, and the extra Torvalds non-ANSI rules. 

Just explain it as "dangerous code", and give examples. There are
certainly bound to be other cases, although the "torvalds case" is the
obvious and most common one. 

		Linus

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@transmeta.com>
To: Tim Hollebeek <tim@franck.Princeton.EDU>
Cc: mark@codesourcery.com, rth@cygnus.com, craig@jcb-sc.com,
	davem@redhat.com, chip@perlsupport.com, egcs@egcs.cygnus.com
Subject: Re: Linux and aliasing?
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:43:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.990607103826.22680A-100000@penguin.transmeta.com> (raw)
Message-ID: <19990630154300.FMawnhI_zEBclXMYEvErLwwfX9Um6aqXsk_SvwamV7Y@z> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <199906071936.MAA05494@franck.Princeton.EDU>

On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Tim Hollebeek wrote:
> 
> This is going to happen even with the Torvalds hack.  If they are
> writing code that ignores the aliasing rules, not every single
> instance will conform to the Torvalds "all pointer trickery happens in
> a single expression" coding style.  Hence their binary will still fail.

Yes. But it's less likely to fail.

However, somebody else did suggest just a warning (for the "torvalds case"
and potentially for other cases that are deemed suspect), and I certainly
agree with that as a kind of "uhhuh, somebody is doing something
dangerous". 

However, even then I think we'd _also_ need to have a syntactically
cleaner way of fixing it - if a warning is generated it obviously would
need to have some way of disabling the warning on a case-by-case basis
(with either saying "it's ok to alias - don't warn me" or a "oh, you were
right, this could alias, please consider it to be in alias set zero").

I completely agree with that kind of extension - it's obviously better
than mine, but it's also much more ambitious than my quick and simple
hack.

> Then we'll have to explain two things to them instead of just one: the
> ANSI rules, and the extra Torvalds non-ANSI rules. 

Just explain it as "dangerous code", and give examples. There are
certainly bound to be other cases, although the "torvalds case" is the
obvious and most common one. 

		Linus

  parent reply	other threads:[~1999-06-07 10:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 218+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1999-06-03 10:23 Chip Salzenberg
1999-06-03 10:37 ` mark
1999-06-03 11:26   ` David S. Miller
1999-06-03 12:03     ` mark
1999-06-03 12:25       ` David S. Miller
1999-06-03 20:06         ` craig
1999-06-03 23:03           ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-03 23:45             ` mark
1999-06-04  0:04               ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-04  1:08                 ` Branko Cibej
1999-06-30 15:43                   ` Branko Cibej
1999-06-04  1:24                 ` Joe Buck
1999-06-04  1:50                   ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-04  5:46                     ` craig
1999-06-04  7:22                       ` burley (was Re: Linux and aliasing?) Mark Hahn
1999-06-04  8:16                         ` craig
1999-06-30 15:43                           ` craig
1999-06-30 15:43                         ` Mark Hahn
1999-06-04  8:35                       ` Linux and aliasing? Linus Torvalds
1999-06-04 10:04                         ` Joe Buck
1999-06-04 10:22                           ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-04 10:31                             ` Joe Buck
1999-06-04 10:53                               ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                               ` Joe Buck
1999-07-11 10:55                               ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-07-31 23:33                                 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-04 11:11                             ` Toon Moene
1999-06-04 12:20                               ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-05  5:45                                 ` Toon Moene
1999-06-05  6:23                                   ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-05 10:32                                     ` Toon Moene
1999-06-05 13:26                                       ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-05 19:35                                         ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-06  1:18                                           ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-06-06 10:46                                             ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                                               ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-06 17:56                                             ` Jason Merrill
1999-06-06 19:24                                               ` Tim Hollebeek
1999-06-30 15:43                                                 ` Tim Hollebeek
1999-06-06 22:23                                               ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                                 ` Jeffrey A Law
     [not found]                                               ` <199906070645.IAA00615@mira.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de>
1999-06-07  2:14                                                 ` Jason Merrill
1999-06-07  8:02                                                   ` mark
1999-06-07  8:41                                                     ` David S. Miller
1999-06-07  9:24                                                       ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-07  9:29                                                         ` David S. Miller
1999-06-30 15:43                                                           ` David S. Miller
1999-06-30 15:43                                                         ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-07  9:32                                                       ` Joe Buck
1999-06-30 15:43                                                         ` Joe Buck
1999-06-30 15:43                                                       ` David S. Miller
1999-06-30 15:43                                                     ` mark
1999-06-07 13:11                                                   ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                                     ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                                   ` Jason Merrill
1999-06-30 15:43                                               ` Jason Merrill
1999-06-30 15:43                                             ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-06-30 15:43                                           ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                                         ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-05 18:48                                       ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                                         ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                                       ` Toon Moene
1999-06-05 10:37                                     ` mark
1999-06-05 11:09                                       ` David S. Miller
1999-06-05 12:11                                         ` Toon Moene
1999-06-05 12:21                                           ` David S. Miller
1999-06-05 16:51                                             ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                                               ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                                             ` David S. Miller
1999-06-30 15:43                                           ` Toon Moene
1999-06-07  6:01                                         ` Joern Rennecke
1999-06-30 15:43                                           ` Joern Rennecke
1999-06-30 15:43                                         ` David S. Miller
1999-06-05 11:35                                       ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-30 15:43                                         ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-05 12:41                                       ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-05 14:43                                         ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-06-30 15:43                                           ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-06-05 16:53                                         ` mark
1999-06-07  2:36                                           ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-07  8:04                                             ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                                               ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                                             ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-30 15:43                                           ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                                         ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-30 15:43                                       ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                                     ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-06 23:12                                   ` f77 vs type based alias analysis Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                     ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-06 23:20                                   ` Linux and aliasing? Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                     ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                   ` Toon Moene
1999-06-30 15:43                                 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-05  4:05                               ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-30 15:43                                 ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-30 15:43                               ` Toon Moene
1999-06-30 15:43                             ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-04 11:49                           ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-04 13:03                             ` Gabriel Dos_Reis
1999-06-04 13:13                               ` Joe Buck
1999-06-30 15:43                                 ` Joe Buck
1999-06-30 15:43                               ` Gabriel Dos_Reis
1999-06-30 15:43                             ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-04 12:59                           ` Alexandre Oliva
1999-06-04 13:29                             ` Joe Buck
1999-06-04 13:39                               ` Alexandre Oliva
1999-06-30 15:43                                 ` Alexandre Oliva
1999-06-30 15:43                               ` Joe Buck
1999-06-30 15:43                             ` Alexandre Oliva
1999-06-30 15:43                           ` Joe Buck
1999-06-30 15:43                         ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                       ` craig
1999-06-30 15:43                     ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                   ` Joe Buck
1999-06-04  5:47                 ` craig
1999-06-30 15:43                   ` craig
1999-06-04  7:11                 ` mark
1999-06-04  8:38                   ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                     ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                   ` mark
1999-06-04  8:41                 ` Tim Hollebeek
1999-06-04  8:53                   ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                     ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                   ` Tim Hollebeek
1999-06-30 15:43                 ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43               ` mark
1999-06-04  5:47             ` craig
1999-06-04  8:17               ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-04  8:49                 ` craig
1999-06-04  8:57                   ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-04  9:02                     ` Jean-Pierre Radley
1999-06-30 15:43                       ` Jean-Pierre Radley
1999-06-30 15:43                     ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                   ` craig
1999-06-30 15:43                 ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43               ` craig
1999-06-04  8:39             ` Tim Hollebeek
1999-06-04  8:55               ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-04 15:20                 ` Richard Henderson
1999-06-05  9:50                   ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-05 11:00                     ` mark
1999-06-06 10:30                       ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-06 10:44                         ` mark
1999-06-06 14:17                           ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-06 17:41                             ` mark
1999-06-07  8:58                               ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-07  9:18                                 ` mark
1999-06-07  9:29                                   ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-07  9:38                                     ` Tim Hollebeek
1999-06-07 10:05                                       ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-30 15:43                                         ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-07 10:44                                       ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
1999-06-07 11:22                                         ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-08  1:34                                           ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-06-08  1:48                                             ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                               ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                             ` Nick Ing-Simmons
1999-06-30 15:43                                           ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43                                         ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                                       ` Tim Hollebeek
1999-06-30 15:43                                     ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                                   ` mark
1999-06-07 13:34                                 ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-30 15:43                                   ` Jamie Lokier
1999-06-30 15:43                                 ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                               ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                             ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                           ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                         ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                       ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43                     ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                   ` Richard Henderson
1999-06-30 15:43                 ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43               ` Tim Hollebeek
1999-06-04 15:02             ` Richard Henderson
1999-06-04 16:50               ` Bernd Schmidt
1999-06-30 15:43                 ` Bernd Schmidt
1999-06-05  9:35               ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-05 13:34                 ` Richard Henderson
1999-06-05 18:40                   ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43                     ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-05 21:38                   ` Jakub Jelinek
1999-06-30 15:43                     ` Jakub Jelinek
1999-06-30 15:43                   ` Richard Henderson
1999-06-30 15:43                 ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43               ` Richard Henderson
1999-06-30 15:43             ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-03 23:53           ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-06-30 15:43             ` Martin v. Loewis
     [not found]           ` <v04205101b37d700fbf8d@[192.168.1.254]>
1999-06-04  7:01             ` craig
1999-06-30 15:43               ` craig
1999-06-30 15:43           ` craig
1999-06-30 15:43         ` David S. Miller
1999-06-03 13:31       ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-30 15:43         ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-30 15:43       ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43     ` David S. Miller
1999-06-03 12:02   ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-03 15:38     ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-06-30 15:43       ` Martin v. Loewis
1999-06-30 15:43     ` Andi Kleen
1999-06-30 15:43   ` mark
1999-06-30 15:43 ` Chip Salzenberg
1999-06-04 11:54 Mike Stump
1999-06-04 12:13 ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-04 13:25   ` Sylvain Pion
1999-06-04 13:32     ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43       ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43     ` Sylvain Pion
1999-06-30 15:43   ` Jeffrey A Law
1999-06-30 15:43 ` Mike Stump
1999-06-06 15:08 Ross Harvey
1999-06-06 15:46 ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-30 15:43   ` Linus Torvalds
1999-06-06 17:29 ` David S. Miller
1999-06-30 15:43   ` David S. Miller
1999-06-30 15:43 ` Ross Harvey

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