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From: Daniel Berlin <dberlin@dberlin.org>
To: "Timothy J. Wood" <tjw@omnigroup.com>
Cc: Devang Patel <dpatel@apple.com>, Mike Stump <mrs@apple.com>,
	<gcc@gcc.gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Problem with PFE approach [Was: Faster compilation speed]
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 20:15:00 -0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0208172304180.29572-100000@dberlin.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <FF8896C4-B230-11D6-98D8-0003933F3BC2@omnigroup.com>

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002, Timothy J. Wood wrote:

> 
>    So, another problem with PFE that I've noticed after working with it 
> for a while...
> 
>    If you put all your commonly used headers in a PFE, then changing any 
> of these headers causes the PFE header to considered changed.  And, 
> since this header is imported into every single file in your project, 
> you end up in a situation where changing any header causes the entire 
> project to be rebuilt.  This is clearly not good for day to day 
> development.
> 
>    A PCH approach that was automatic and didn't have a single monolithic 
> file would avoid the artificial tying together of all the headers in 
> the world and would thus lead to faster incremental builds due to fewer 
> files being rebuilt.
> 
>    Another approach that would work with a monolithic file would be some 
> sort of fact database that would allow the build system to decide early 
> on that the change in question didn't effect some subset of files.
> 

Also, while constructive criticism is good and all, at some point, it 
becomes "put up or shut up". It's one thing to say how great something 
would be, another thing to implement it.  We have heard your idea, we know 
how to implement it.  Everyone is aware of it.  At this point, i'd 
rather you tell me how good it is when you've got code to do it, rather 
than keep pointing out what you perceive to be flaws in something that is 
a large improvement over what exists now.

One of the things that slows down gcc development is criticism of patches 
that are large improvements over what exists now, in favor of some 
"better" approach, which nobody has yet implemented.  Then this large 
improvement never gets accepted, and nobody ever implements the "better 
approach". The perfect is the enemy of the good.

 --Dan


  parent reply	other threads:[~2002-08-17 20:15 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 173+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-08-09 12:17 Faster compilation speed Mike Stump
2002-08-09 13:04 ` Noel Yap
2002-08-09 13:10   ` Matt Austern
2002-08-09 14:22   ` Neil Booth
2002-08-09 14:44     ` Noel Yap
2002-08-09 15:14       ` Neil Booth
2002-08-10 15:54         ` Noel Yap
2002-08-09 15:13   ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-09 15:18     ` Neil Booth
2002-08-10 16:12       ` Noel Yap
2002-08-10 18:00         ` Nix
2002-08-10 20:36           ` Noel Yap
2002-08-11  4:30             ` Nix
2002-08-12 15:08           ` Mike Stump
2002-08-09 15:19     ` Ziemowit Laski
2002-08-09 15:25       ` Neil Booth
2002-08-10 16:16       ` Noel Yap
2002-08-10 16:07     ` Noel Yap
2002-08-10 16:18       ` Neil Booth
2002-08-10 20:27         ` Noel Yap
2002-08-11  0:11           ` Neil Booth
2002-08-12 12:04             ` Devang Patel
2002-08-09 18:57   ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-09 19:12     ` Phil Edwards
2002-08-09 19:34     ` Kevin Atkinson
2002-08-09 20:28       ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-09 21:12         ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-09 21:52           ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-10  6:32         ` Robert Lipe
2002-08-10 14:26           ` Cyrille Chepelov
2002-08-10 17:33             ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-10 18:21               ` Linus Torvalds
2002-08-10 18:38                 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-10 18:39                 ` Cyrille Chepelov
2002-08-10 18:28               ` Cyrille Chepelov
2002-08-10 18:30                 ` John Levon
2002-08-11  1:03             ` Florian Weimer
2002-08-10 19:20     ` Noel Yap
2002-08-09 13:10 ` Aldy Hernandez
2002-08-09 15:28   ` Mike Stump
2002-08-09 16:00     ` Aldy Hernandez
2002-08-09 16:26       ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-09 16:31         ` Aldy Hernandez
2002-08-09 16:51           ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-09 16:54             ` Aldy Hernandez
2002-08-09 17:44             ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-09 18:35               ` David S. Miller
2002-08-09 18:39                 ` Aldy Hernandez
2002-08-09 18:59                   ` David S. Miller
2002-08-09 20:01                   ` Per Bothner
2002-08-09 18:25             ` David S. Miller
2002-08-13  0:50               ` Loren James Rittle
2002-08-13 21:46                 ` Fergus Henderson
2002-08-13 22:40                   ` David S. Miller
2002-08-13 23:44                     ` Fergus Henderson
2002-08-14  7:58                     ` Jeff Sturm
2002-08-14  9:52                     ` Richard Henderson
2002-08-14 10:00                       ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-14 12:01                         ` Andreas Schwab
2002-08-14 12:07                           ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-14 13:20                             ` Michael Matz
2002-08-14 16:31                               ` Faster compilation speed [zone allocation] Per Bothner
2002-08-15 11:34                                 ` Aldy Hernandez
2002-08-15 11:39                                   ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-15 12:01                                     ` Lynn Winebarger
2002-08-15 12:11                                       ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-15 11:41                                   ` Michael Matz
2002-08-16  8:44                                     ` Kai Henningsen
2002-08-15 11:43                                   ` Per Bothner
2002-08-15 11:57                                   ` Kevin Handy
2002-08-14 13:20                             ` Faster compilation speed Jamie Lokier
2002-08-14 16:01                               ` Nix
2002-08-14 10:15                       ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-14 16:35                         ` Richard Henderson
2002-08-14 17:02                           ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-20  4:15                         ` Richard Earnshaw
2002-08-20  5:38                           ` Jeff Sturm
2002-08-20  5:53                             ` Richard Earnshaw
2002-08-20 13:42                               ` Jeff Sturm
2002-08-22  1:55                                 ` Richard Earnshaw
2002-08-22  2:03                                   ` David S. Miller
2002-08-23 15:39                                   ` Jeff Sturm
2002-08-20  8:00                           ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-14  7:36                   ` Jeff Sturm
2002-08-10 10:02             ` Neil Booth
2002-08-09 17:36         ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-12 16:23         ` Mike Stump
2002-08-12 16:05       ` Mike Stump
2002-08-09 19:07     ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-09 14:29 ` Neil Booth
2002-08-09 15:02   ` Nathan Sidwell
2002-08-09 17:05     ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-10  2:21     ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2002-08-12 12:11   ` Mike Stump
2002-08-12 12:41     ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-12 12:47       ` Matt Austern
2002-08-12 12:56         ` David S. Miller
2002-08-12 13:56           ` Matt Austern
2002-08-12 14:27             ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-12 15:26               ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-13 10:49                 ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-13 10:52                   ` David S. Miller
2002-08-13 14:03                   ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-13 14:46                     ` Geoff Keating
2002-08-13 15:10                       ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-13 15:26                         ` Neil Booth
2002-08-14  9:25                     ` Kevin Handy
2002-08-18 12:58                     ` Jeff Sturm
2002-08-19 12:55                       ` Mike Stump
2002-08-20 11:22                       ` Will Cohen
2002-08-13 15:32                   ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-13 15:58                     ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-13 16:49                       ` David S. Miller
2002-08-12 14:59             ` David S. Miller
2002-08-12 16:00             ` Geoff Keating
2002-08-13  2:58               ` Nick Ing-Simmons
2002-08-13 10:47               ` Richard Henderson
2002-08-12 14:28           ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-12 15:05             ` David S. Miller
2002-08-12 19:17     ` Mike Stump
2002-08-12 23:28       ` Neil Booth
2002-08-09 14:51 ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-09 15:03   ` David Edelsohn
2002-08-09 15:43     ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-09 16:43     ` Alan Lehotsky
2002-08-09 16:49       ` Matt Austern
2002-08-10  2:24         ` Gabriel Dos Reis
2002-08-09 15:26   ` Geoff Keating
2002-08-09 16:06     ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-09 16:14       ` Terry Flannery
2002-08-09 16:29         ` Neil Booth
2002-08-09 16:29       ` Phil Edwards
2002-08-12 16:24         ` Mike Stump
2002-08-12 18:38           ` Phil Edwards
2002-08-13  5:27           ` Theodore Papadopoulo
2002-08-13 10:03             ` Mike Stump
2002-08-12 15:55     ` Mike Stump
2002-08-09 14:59 ` Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-16 13:31   ` Problem with PFE approach [Was: Faster compilation speed] Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-16 13:44     ` Devang Patel
2002-08-16 14:31       ` Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-16 14:39         ` Neil Booth
2002-08-16 14:46         ` Devang Patel
2002-08-16 13:54     ` Devang Patel
2002-08-16 14:42       ` Neil Booth
2002-08-16 14:57         ` Devang Patel
2002-08-17 15:31           ` Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-17 20:04             ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-17 20:07               ` Andrew Pinski
2002-08-17 20:14               ` Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-17 20:21                 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-18  3:17                   ` Kai Henningsen
2002-08-18  7:36                     ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-18 11:20                       ` jepler
2002-08-18 13:20                         ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-18 14:31                           ` Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-18 14:35                             ` Andrew Pinski
2002-08-18 14:55                               ` Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-19  2:41                             ` Michael Matz
2002-08-19  6:26                               ` jepler
2002-08-19  6:40                                 ` Daniel Berlin
2002-08-19 11:50                                 ` Devang Patel
2002-08-19 12:55                                   ` Jeff Epler
2002-08-19 13:03                                     ` Ziemowit Laski
2002-08-19 11:53                               ` Devang Patel
2002-08-19 11:59                 ` Devang Patel
2002-08-17 20:15             ` Daniel Berlin [this message]
2002-08-19  7:07             ` Stan Shebs
2002-08-19  8:52               ` Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-16 14:45       ` Timothy J. Wood
2002-08-09 16:01 ` Faster compilation speed Richard Henderson
2002-08-10 17:48 ` Aaron Lehmann
2002-08-12 10:36   ` Dale Johannesen

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