Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

[David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd]

Dear GCC Steering Committee,

I am David, founder of AdaLabs Ltd, a software engineering startup
having expertise in Ada programming language technologies. As a summary,
we would like to know if gcc has interest in an assignment of copyright
to FSF from our work. We are not used to this process, and are kindly
soliciting your support on this task. Our work is about Ada compiler
support on GCC for OpenVMS.

AdaLabs Ltd (http://adalabs.com) and PIA-SOFER SARL
(http://pia-sofer.fr) have worked hard to make Ada available again on
OpenVMs using GCC (ia64-hp-openvms). Both entities share ownership,
while AdaLabs is also the author of the work.

Our work is based on gcc-4.7.4, and consists in building a gcc compiler
for openvms ia64 (through native, cross and canadian build, starting
from x86_64-linux-gnu to finally reach ia64-hp-openvms). The
modifications are of two flavours:
- patches to make the builds successful (in native, cross and canadian
builds)
- patches/backports to implement Ada/VMS related features, that are
present in gcc version after gcc-4.7.4 (in native, cross and canadian
builds).

In the case you are interested in our copyright assignment proposal, we
would be pleased to continue this process.

In the case you are not interested in our copyright assignment proposal,
we would be pleased if you could advise us on the best way to make our
work available to the GNU/FSF community, especially concerning the
licenses and copyrights management.

I am at your disposal concerning any information you may need to take a
stand concerning this proposal.

Best Regards,

-- 

David SAUVAGE

Software Agile Architect, Director
AdaLabs Ltd - Mauritius
http://adalabs.com
+230 542 818 32
skype sauvaged
BRN C10097052

Re: Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

[David Edelsohn]

On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:55 AM, David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd
<david.sauvage@adalabs.com> wrote:
>
> Dear GCC Steering Committee,
>
> I am David, founder of AdaLabs Ltd, a software engineering startup
> having expertise in Ada programming language technologies. As a summary,
> we would like to know if gcc has interest in an assignment of copyright
> to FSF from our work. We are not used to this process, and are kindly
> soliciting your support on this task. Our work is about Ada compiler
> support on GCC for OpenVMS.
>
> AdaLabs Ltd (http://adalabs.com) and PIA-SOFER SARL
> (http://pia-sofer.fr) have worked hard to make Ada available again on
> OpenVMs using GCC (ia64-hp-openvms). Both entities share ownership,
> while AdaLabs is also the author of the work.
>
> Our work is based on gcc-4.7.4, and consists in building a gcc compiler
> for openvms ia64 (through native, cross and canadian build, starting
> from x86_64-linux-gnu to finally reach ia64-hp-openvms). The
> modifications are of two flavours:
> - patches to make the builds successful (in native, cross and canadian
> builds)
> - patches/backports to implement Ada/VMS related features, that are
> present in gcc version after gcc-4.7.4 (in native, cross and canadian
> builds).
>
> In the case you are interested in our copyright assignment proposal, we
> would be pleased to continue this process.
>
> In the case you are not interested in our copyright assignment proposal,
> we would be pleased if you could advise us on the best way to make our
> work available to the GNU/FSF community, especially concerning the
> licenses and copyrights management.
>
> I am at your disposal concerning any information you may need to take a
> stand concerning this proposal.

Hi, David

The GCC Community always is open to considering patches to support new
languages, new targets and new features.

When you say that the work is based on GCC 4.7.4, does that mean that
the patches are relative to GCC 4.7.4, as opposed to the current
development version of GCC?

GCC only accepts patches relative to the current development sources.
Patches for bug fixes can be considered for backporting to an actively
maintained branch, but GCC does not accept patches for completely new
features to a release branch.  Also, GCC 4.7 initially was released 5
years ago and no longer accepts patches.

Does the offer include continued support and maintenance of Ada/VMS to
ensure that it continues to function?  The GCC community requires
someone to assume responsibility for the continued function of the new
feature.

Can you clarify some of the details of the offer?

Thanks, David

Re: Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

[David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd]

On 04/28/2017 06:47 PM, David Edelsohn wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:55 AM, David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd
> <david.sauvage@adalabs.com> wrote:
>> Dear GCC Steering Committee,
>>
>> I am David, founder of AdaLabs Ltd, a software engineering startup
>> having expertise in Ada programming language technologies. As a summary,
>> we would like to know if gcc has interest in an assignment of copyright
>> to FSF from our work. We are not used to this process, and are kindly
>> soliciting your support on this task. Our work is about Ada compiler
>> support on GCC for OpenVMS.
>>
>> AdaLabs Ltd (http://adalabs.com) and PIA-SOFER SARL
>> (http://pia-sofer.fr) have worked hard to make Ada available again on
>> OpenVMs using GCC (ia64-hp-openvms). Both entities share ownership,
>> while AdaLabs is also the author of the work.
>>
>> Our work is based on gcc-4.7.4, and consists in building a gcc compiler
>> for openvms ia64 (through native, cross and canadian build, starting
>> from x86_64-linux-gnu to finally reach ia64-hp-openvms). The
>> modifications are of two flavours:
>> - patches to make the builds successful (in native, cross and canadian
>> builds)
>> - patches/backports to implement Ada/VMS related features, that are
>> present in gcc version after gcc-4.7.4 (in native, cross and canadian
>> builds).
>>
>> In the case you are interested in our copyright assignment proposal, we
>> would be pleased to continue this process.
>>
>> In the case you are not interested in our copyright assignment proposal,
>> we would be pleased if you could advise us on the best way to make our
>> work available to the GNU/FSF community, especially concerning the
>> licenses and copyrights management.
>>
>> I am at your disposal concerning any information you may need to take a
>> stand concerning this proposal.
> Hi, David
>
> The GCC Community always is open to considering patches to support new
> languages, new targets and new features.
>
> When you say that the work is based on GCC 4.7.4, does that mean that
> the patches are relative to GCC 4.7.4, as opposed to the current
> development version of GCC?
>
> GCC only accepts patches relative to the current development sources.
> Patches for bug fixes can be considered for backporting to an actively
> maintained branch, but GCC does not accept patches for completely new
> features to a release branch.  Also, GCC 4.7 initially was released 5
> years ago and no longer accepts patches.
>
> Does the offer include continued support and maintenance of Ada/VMS to
> ensure that it continues to function?  The GCC community requires
> someone to assume responsibility for the continued function of the new
> feature.
>
> Can you clarify some of the details of the offer?
>
> Thanks, David

Great thanks for your feedbacks David,
we will revert soon

Regards

Re: Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

[David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd]

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On 04/29/2017 06:31 PM, David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd wrote:
> On 04/28/2017 06:47 PM, David Edelsohn wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:55 AM, David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd
>> <david.sauvage@adalabs.com> wrote:
>>> Dear GCC Steering Committee,
>>>
>>> I am David, founder of AdaLabs Ltd, a software engineering startup
>>> having expertise in Ada programming language technologies. As a summary,
>>> we would like to know if gcc has interest in an assignment of copyright
>>> to FSF from our work. We are not used to this process, and are kindly
>>> soliciting your support on this task. Our work is about Ada compiler
>>> support on GCC for OpenVMS.
>>>
>>> AdaLabs Ltd (http://adalabs.com) and PIA-SOFER SARL
>>> (http://pia-sofer.fr) have worked hard to make Ada available again on
>>> OpenVMs using GCC (ia64-hp-openvms). Both entities share ownership,
>>> while AdaLabs is also the author of the work.
>>>
>>> Our work is based on gcc-4.7.4, and consists in building a gcc compiler
>>> for openvms ia64 (through native, cross and canadian build, starting
>>> from x86_64-linux-gnu to finally reach ia64-hp-openvms). The
>>> modifications are of two flavours:
>>> - patches to make the builds successful (in native, cross and canadian
>>> builds)
>>> - patches/backports to implement Ada/VMS related features, that are
>>> present in gcc version after gcc-4.7.4 (in native, cross and canadian
>>> builds).
>>>
>>> In the case you are interested in our copyright assignment proposal, we
>>> would be pleased to continue this process.
>>>
>>> In the case you are not interested in our copyright assignment proposal,
>>> we would be pleased if you could advise us on the best way to make our
>>> work available to the GNU/FSF community, especially concerning the
>>> licenses and copyrights management.
>>>
>>> I am at your disposal concerning any information you may need to take a
>>> stand concerning this proposal.
>> Hi, David
>>
>> The GCC Community always is open to considering patches to support new
>> languages, new targets and new features.
>>
>> When you say that the work is based on GCC 4.7.4, does that mean that
>> the patches are relative to GCC 4.7.4, as opposed to the current
>> development version of GCC?
>>
>> GCC only accepts patches relative to the current development sources.
>> Patches for bug fixes can be considered for backporting to an actively
>> maintained branch, but GCC does not accept patches for completely new
>> features to a release branch.  Also, GCC 4.7 initially was released 5
>> years ago and no longer accepts patches.
>>
>> Does the offer include continued support and maintenance of Ada/VMS to
>> ensure that it continues to function?  The GCC community requires
>> someone to assume responsibility for the continued function of the new
>> feature.
>>
>> Can you clarify some of the details of the offer?
>>
>> Thanks, David
> Great thanks for your feedbacks David,
> we will revert soon
>
> Regards
>
Dear David,

our 'assignment of copyright' proposal only target a set of patches for
GCC version 4.7.4. That is, as you clearly stated on your email above,
not part of GCC current development sources. As a consequence, I
understand that FSF/GCC is not in position to accept our proposal.

Grateful if you could confirm my understanding, as Gérard in copy of
this email is not used to the Libre Software world ...

This lead us to the last section of my initial email:
"[...] we would be pleased if you could advise us on the best way to
make our
work available to the GNU/FSF community, especially concerning the
licenses and copyrights management."

Any feedbacks on the above are most welcome.
Thanks again for your time,

Best Regards,

-- 

David SAUVAGE

Software Agile Architect, Director
AdaLabs Ltd - Mauritius
http://adalabs.com
+230 542 818 32
skype sauvaged
BRN C10097052



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Re: Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

[David Edelsohn]

On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 12:54 PM, David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd
<david.sauvage@adalabs.com> wrote:
> On 04/29/2017 06:31 PM, David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd wrote:
>> On 04/28/2017 06:47 PM, David Edelsohn wrote:
>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 10:55 AM, David SAUVAGE - AdaLabs Ltd
>>> <david.sauvage@adalabs.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear GCC Steering Committee,
>>>>
>>>> I am David, founder of AdaLabs Ltd, a software engineering startup
>>>> having expertise in Ada programming language technologies. As a summary,
>>>> we would like to know if gcc has interest in an assignment of copyright
>>>> to FSF from our work. We are not used to this process, and are kindly
>>>> soliciting your support on this task. Our work is about Ada compiler
>>>> support on GCC for OpenVMS.
>>>>
>>>> AdaLabs Ltd (http://adalabs.com) and PIA-SOFER SARL
>>>> (http://pia-sofer.fr) have worked hard to make Ada available again on
>>>> OpenVMs using GCC (ia64-hp-openvms). Both entities share ownership,
>>>> while AdaLabs is also the author of the work.
>>>>
>>>> Our work is based on gcc-4.7.4, and consists in building a gcc compiler
>>>> for openvms ia64 (through native, cross and canadian build, starting
>>>> from x86_64-linux-gnu to finally reach ia64-hp-openvms). The
>>>> modifications are of two flavours:
>>>> - patches to make the builds successful (in native, cross and canadian
>>>> builds)
>>>> - patches/backports to implement Ada/VMS related features, that are
>>>> present in gcc version after gcc-4.7.4 (in native, cross and canadian
>>>> builds).
>>>>
>>>> In the case you are interested in our copyright assignment proposal, we
>>>> would be pleased to continue this process.
>>>>
>>>> In the case you are not interested in our copyright assignment proposal,
>>>> we would be pleased if you could advise us on the best way to make our
>>>> work available to the GNU/FSF community, especially concerning the
>>>> licenses and copyrights management.
>>>>
>>>> I am at your disposal concerning any information you may need to take a
>>>> stand concerning this proposal.
>>> Hi, David
>>>
>>> The GCC Community always is open to considering patches to support new
>>> languages, new targets and new features.
>>>
>>> When you say that the work is based on GCC 4.7.4, does that mean that
>>> the patches are relative to GCC 4.7.4, as opposed to the current
>>> development version of GCC?
>>>
>>> GCC only accepts patches relative to the current development sources.
>>> Patches for bug fixes can be considered for backporting to an actively
>>> maintained branch, but GCC does not accept patches for completely new
>>> features to a release branch.  Also, GCC 4.7 initially was released 5
>>> years ago and no longer accepts patches.
>>>
>>> Does the offer include continued support and maintenance of Ada/VMS to
>>> ensure that it continues to function?  The GCC community requires
>>> someone to assume responsibility for the continued function of the new
>>> feature.
>>>
>>> Can you clarify some of the details of the offer?
>>>
>>> Thanks, David
>> Great thanks for your feedbacks David,
>> we will revert soon
>>
>> Regards
>>
> Dear David,
>
> our 'assignment of copyright' proposal only target a set of patches for
> GCC version 4.7.4. That is, as you clearly stated on your email above,
> not part of GCC current development sources. As a consequence, I
> understand that FSF/GCC is not in position to accept our proposal.
>
> Grateful if you could confirm my understanding, as Gérard in copy of
> this email is not used to the Libre Software world ...

Your understanding is correct.  GCC never accepts patches for a
specific version / release -- even if it is the current release.
Patches for new features or support must be contributed to the current
development version.

>
> This lead us to the last section of my initial email:
> "[...] we would be pleased if you could advise us on the best way to
> make our
> work available to the GNU/FSF community, especially concerning the
> licenses and copyrights management."
>
> Any feedbacks on the above are most welcome.
> Thanks again for your time,

Ideally, you should create a general copyright assignment to GCC -- a
"futures" assignment of all patches for GCC.  you can select which
patches to contribute.

If you insist on limiting it, you can specify files.  But that always
runs into the potential problem of files that were omitted from the
list (such as a configuration file) or changes to additional files
requested by reviewers.  Also, GCC generally likes developers to
continue to maintain contributions.

I don't know the relationship / friendliness between AdaLabs and
AdaCore.  Another possibility is that you make a private arrangement
to assign the copyright to AdaCore and they contribute the actual
patches to the GCC Project.

Thanks, David

Re: Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

[Arnaud Charlet]

> Ideally, you should create a general copyright assignment to GCC -- a
> "futures" assignment of all patches for GCC.  you can select which
> patches to contribute.
> 
> If you insist on limiting it, you can specify files.  But that always
> runs into the potential problem of files that were omitted from the
> list (such as a configuration file) or changes to additional files
> requested by reviewers.  Also, GCC generally likes developers to
> continue to maintain contributions.
> 
> I don't know the relationship / friendliness between AdaLabs and
> AdaCore.  Another possibility is that you make a private arrangement

Let me answer this part: Adacore has decided to baseline all its support
for VMS which was not longer economically viable for us as an active platform
and required too much special cases to be kept as is, getting in the way
of further enhancements and clean ups for other platforms.

That's why we completely removed all support for Ada in our current toolset
as well as in the FSF GCC a few years ago, to stop having the burden to
maintain this complex part of the technology.

We welcomed AdaLabs initiative and encouraged it, even passing several
commercial leads, since we want to have an as lively Ada ecosystem as
possible.

> to assign the copyright to AdaCore and they contribute the actual
> patches to the GCC Project.

As per above, we are not looking forward putting VMS Ada support back in GCC,
even less having to maintain it directly on indirectly, but this is
all theoretical anyway, since all this work is based on a relatively old
version of GCC now, and we're no longer talking about "patching some files"
at this stage, but about potentially restoring dozens of files, and thousands
of lines of new patches to restore code that was removed throughout the
general Ada files, which I don't see us accepting at this stage: this would
create a too large maintenance burden on general Ada files that would impact
the maintenance of all existing live Ada ports.

Arno

Re: Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

[Arnaud Charlet]

Also I forgot to mention: I would recommend putting your GCC 4.7 based
port on e.g. github so that other people can benefit from it, since putting
this code base in gcc.gnu.org isn't on the table as per David's emails. I
think that would be the best compromise.

Arno

Re: Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms <<< perhaps second, there are been mailing isuse

[gérard Calliet]

Hello,

Actually, this port is a survival initiative. I was part of a VMS port 
from Alpha to Itanium, which was finally launched... the month Adacore 
decided to stop its support.

I had long negociations with Quentin Ochem in France, hoping to get the 
Adacore compiler even without support, and the answer has been no. 
Because this involved a crash of our  port project, I took the 
initiative of 'doing something'. Quentin Ochem introduced Adalabs to me 
and I took the risk of rebuilding from sources the compiler. In less 
than six months Adalabs has been able to do the job. Choice of gcc 4.7 
has been a technology choice to go forward as quickly as possible.

My deal with the final customer was: you pay the fees you'd payed to  
Adacore, and we guaranty your perimeter. So we did the rebuild with 2 
contracts support investment. It's not good business, it's just survival 
kit. I don't know how all others Gnat Pro VMS users will survive, but 
I'm opened on any negociation with Adacore to help them, if Adacore 
helps transfering revenue of their support to help making my survival 
kits survive.

I unsderstand Adacore could think about VMS ecosystem for Ada as not 
good business. It could be very different for a very little company like 
mine, specialized for decades on VMS and involved in VMS renewal from 
VSI (VMS Software International). My understanding of the AdaCore 
initiative is it has been finding a way to keep Ada alive, so we share 
the same values, and I can help the VMS Ada segment survive.

Anything can be imagined, why not, as you said, to do some github push 
of the port realized with the help of AdaLabs? why not ending the absurd 
situation of rebuilding a compiler which already exists, and building 
together a partnership -with no cost for Adacore, but some interests for us?

Anyway - and it is the answer about support - my company (pia-sofer) has 
definitivly decided to maintain an Ada compiler for VMS. Today I pushed 
on internet our survival kit: www.vmsadaall.org. Its life will depend on 
number of adopters, friendly recommandations, and for sure, fruits from 
this discution.

Because I'm a little bit new in the Ada ecosystem, I took contacts in 
France with french experts who, if necessary, I will be able to call for 
help for support (http://www.adalog.fr Jean-Pierre Rosen is The ada 
French expert) and Novasys (http://www.novasys-ingenierie.com about 40 
Ada experienced software experts).

Best regards,

Gérard Calliet, pia-sofer ceo

www.pia-sofer.com

+33 670 716 179


Le 16/05/2017 à 09:29, Arnaud Charlet a écrit :
> Also I forgot to mention: I would recommend putting your GCC 4.7 based
> port on e.g. github so that other people can benefit from it, since putting
> this code base in gcc.gnu.org isn't on the table as per David's emails. I
> think that would be the best compromise.
>
> Arno


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Re: Ada gcc compiler for ia64-hp-openvms

[Florian Weimer]

On 05/15/2017 10:01 PM, David Edelsohn wrote:
> Your understanding is correct.  GCC never accepts patches for a
> specific version / release -- even if it is the current release.
> Patches for new features or support must be contributed to the current
> development version.

Can't the patches be put on a branch on sourceware.org after the 
paperwork has been done, just to save them for posterity?

Thanks,
Florian