[RFC] Update Stage 4 description

[RFC] Update Stage 4 description

[Tom de Vries]

[ To revisit https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2018-04/msg00385.html ]

The current formulation for the description of Stage 4 here (
https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html ) is:
...
During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may be
made are changes that fix regressions.

Other changes may not be done during this period.

Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.

This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
...

This updated formulation was proposed by Richi (with a request for
review of wording):
...
 During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may
 be made are changes that fix regressions.

-Other changes may not be done during this period.
+Other important bugs like wrong-code, rejects-valid or build issues may
+be fixed as well.  All changes during this period should be done with
+extra care on not introducing new regressions - fixing bugs at all cost
+is not wanted.

 Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.

 This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
...

If a text can be agreed upon, then I can prepare a patch for wwwdocs.

Thanks,
- Tom

Re: [RFC] Update Stage 4 description

[Richard Biener]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2019, Tom de Vries wrote:

> [ To revisit https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2018-04/msg00385.html ]
> 
> The current formulation for the description of Stage 4 here (
> https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html ) is:
> ...
> During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may be
> made are changes that fix regressions.
> 
> Other changes may not be done during this period.
> 
> Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
> 
> This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
> ...
> 
> This updated formulation was proposed by Richi (with a request for
> review of wording):
> ...
>  During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may
>  be made are changes that fix regressions.
> 
> -Other changes may not be done during this period.
> +Other important bugs like wrong-code, rejects-valid or build issues may
> +be fixed as well.  All changes during this period should be done with
> +extra care on not introducing new regressions - fixing bugs at all cost
> +is not wanted.
> 
>  Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
> 
>  This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
> ...
> 
> If a text can be agreed upon, then I can prepare a patch for wwwdocs.

The proposed text sounds good, please post a patch and apply!

Thanks,
Richard.

Re: [RFC] Update Stage 4 description

[Jonathan Wakely]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 at 08:41, Tom de Vries <tdevries@suse.de> wrote:
>
> [ To revisit https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2018-04/msg00385.html ]
>
> The current formulation for the description of Stage 4 here (
> https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html ) is:
> ...
> During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may be
> made are changes that fix regressions.
>
> Other changes may not be done during this period.
>
> Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
>
> This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
> ...
>
> This updated formulation was proposed by Richi (with a request for
> review of wording):
> ...
>  During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may
>  be made are changes that fix regressions.
>
> -Other changes may not be done during this period.
> +Other important bugs like wrong-code, rejects-valid or build issues may
> +be fixed as well.  All changes during this period should be done with
> +extra care on not introducing new regressions - fixing bugs at all cost

ISTM that this should be either "at any cost" or "at all costs". The
current wording can't make up its mind if it's singular or plural.

I also stumbled over "on not introducing" ... would that be better as
"to not introduce"?


> +is not wanted.
>
>  Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
>
>  This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
> ...
>
> If a text can be agreed upon, then I can prepare a patch for wwwdocs.
>
> Thanks,
> - Tom

[wwwdocs, committed] Update Stage 4 description

[Tom de Vries]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1477 bytes --]

[ was: Re: [RFC] Update Stage 4 description ]

On 09-01-19 09:47, Richard Biener wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Jan 2019, Tom de Vries wrote:
> 
>> [ To revisit https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2018-04/msg00385.html ]
>>
>> The current formulation for the description of Stage 4 here (
>> https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html ) is:
>> ...
>> During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may be
>> made are changes that fix regressions.
>>
>> Other changes may not be done during this period.
>>
>> Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
>>
>> This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
>> ...
>>
>> This updated formulation was proposed by Richi (with a request for
>> review of wording):
>> ...
>>  During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may
>>  be made are changes that fix regressions.
>>
>> -Other changes may not be done during this period.
>> +Other important bugs like wrong-code, rejects-valid or build issues may
>> +be fixed as well.  All changes during this period should be done with
>> +extra care on not introducing new regressions - fixing bugs at all cost
>> +is not wanted.
>>
>>  Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
>>
>>  This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
>> ...
>>
>> If a text can be agreed upon, then I can prepare a patch for wwwdocs.
> 
> The proposed text sounds good, please post a patch and apply!

Attached patch committed.

Thanks,
- Tom

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Index: htdocs/develop.html
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RCS file: /cvs/gcc/wwwdocs/htdocs/develop.html,v
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< be made are changes that fix regressions.  Other changes may not be
< done during this period.  Note that the same constraints apply
< to release branches.  This period lasts until stage 1 opens for
< the next release.</p>
---
> be made are changes that fix regressions.  Other important bugs
> like wrong-code, rejects-valid or build issues may be fixed as well.
> All changes during this period should be done with extra care on
> not introducing new regressions - fixing bugs at all cost is not
> wanted.  Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
> This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.</p>

Re: [RFC] Update Stage 4 description

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 9, 2019, at 3:42 AM, Tom de Vries <tdevries@suse.de> wrote:
> 
> [ To revisit https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2018-04/msg00385.html ]
> 
> The current formulation for the description of Stage 4 here (
> https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html ) is:
> ...
> During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may be
> made are changes that fix regressions.
> 
> Other changes may not be done during this period.
> 
> Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
> 
> This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
> ...
> 
> This updated formulation was proposed by Richi (with a request for
> review of wording):
> ...
> During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may
> be made are changes that fix regressions.
> 
> -Other changes may not be done during this period.
> +Other important bugs like wrong-code, rejects-valid or build issues may
> +be fixed as well.  All changes during this period should be done with
> +extra care on not introducing new regressions - fixing bugs at all cost
> +is not wanted.
...

Is there, or should there be, a distinction between primary and non-primary platforms?  While platform bugs typically require fixes in platform-specific code, I would think we would want to stay away from bugfixes in minor platforms during stage 4.  The wording seems to say that I could fix wrong-code bugs in pdp11 during stage 4; I have been assuming I should not do that.  Is this something that should be explicitly stated?

	paul

Re: [RFC] Update Stage 4 description

[Richard Biener]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2019, Paul Koning wrote:

> 
> 
> > On Jan 9, 2019, at 3:42 AM, Tom de Vries <tdevries@suse.de> wrote:
> > 
> > [ To revisit https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2018-04/msg00385.html ]
> > 
> > The current formulation for the description of Stage 4 here (
> > https://gcc.gnu.org/develop.html ) is:
> > ...
> > During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may be
> > made are changes that fix regressions.
> > 
> > Other changes may not be done during this period.
> > 
> > Note that the same constraints apply to release branches.
> > 
> > This period lasts until stage 1 opens for the next release.
> > ...
> > 
> > This updated formulation was proposed by Richi (with a request for
> > review of wording):
> > ...
> > During this period, the only (non-documentation) changes that may
> > be made are changes that fix regressions.
> > 
> > -Other changes may not be done during this period.
> > +Other important bugs like wrong-code, rejects-valid or build issues may
> > +be fixed as well.  All changes during this period should be done with
> > +extra care on not introducing new regressions - fixing bugs at all cost
> > +is not wanted.
> ...
> 
> Is there, or should there be, a distinction between primary and non-primary platforms?  While platform bugs typically require fixes in platform-specific code, I would think we would want to stay away from bugfixes in minor platforms during stage 4.  The wording seems to say that I could fix wrong-code bugs in pdp11 during stage 4; I have been assuming I should not do that.  Is this something that should be explicitly stated?

I think it's somewhere stated that during Stage 3 non-primary/secondary 
targets as well as non-C/C++ languages have no restrictions.  Of course
while technically true breaking builds is still not wanted.

For Stage 4 things are somewhat different I think, not sure if it's 
anywhere spelled out.

Richard.

Re: [RFC] Update Stage 4 description

[Nathan Sidwell]

On 1/9/19 4:02 AM, Jonathan Wakely wrote:

>> +extra care on not introducing new regressions - fixing bugs at all cost
> 
> ISTM that this should be either "at any cost" or "at all costs". The
> current wording can't make up its mind if it's singular or plural.

Agreed, as a native english speaker, 'at any cost' would be my preferred 
formulation.

> I also stumbled over "on not introducing" ... would that be better as
> "to not introduce"?

Either seems fine to me

nathan
-- 
Nathan Sidwell

Re: [RFC] Update Stage 4 description

[Joseph Myers]

On Wed, 9 Jan 2019, Paul Koning wrote:

> Is there, or should there be, a distinction between primary and 
> non-primary platforms?  While platform bugs typically require fixes in 
> platform-specific code, I would think we would want to stay away from 
> bugfixes in minor platforms during stage 4.  The wording seems to say 
> that I could fix wrong-code bugs in pdp11 during stage 4; I have been 
> assuming I should not do that.  Is this something that should be 
> explicitly stated?

In target-specific code for a minor target you can more or less do as you 
want - but the decision on when to branch won't take account of what 
you're doing for a minor target, so any major work runs the risk of the 
branch happening at an unstable point in the middle of that work.

-- 
Joseph S. Myers
joseph@codesourcery.com