From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com (mail-wm1-x32c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F44C383B43F for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:18:58 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 1F44C383B43F Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id y5-20020a05600c3645b0290132b13aaa3bso937577wmq.1 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 09:18:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=nD/sOnuUpxvSiM3QkE4DovJQwW7TF1nZKrYFlD2MiAI=; b=tpYi5349G80Z7t6sxFNjfXznuOD2THCI6oM+2yzA45K/3IyF8+IcOku3aItR3Eya7b 03Q9huekShungHSWDfR7XP2g7fNf4TV3g8m8DgUbkPkp4N7ARqLHh3RPAljJ1f00QDx8 4ztpsdO0ASve2c6eGgikT8mOU6UDQ9gsURidVN5xjY8/Ehtt3bMqkzhkkHrXARgdimU2 UukHiIq8+WafTYC7Hab+JyqHbN56uQe3mhyyHhrgmASJfErPYOy6sSQa7t/V+UMdt5na M2oMAb9hIrs9gqE+RkwMXS5mY8F3b/uJyz/HM5vSYoIsxsSiM256iLgvoFG1srcvggCn PLxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533EGeQDO+PcKDBLn68H2qw4oU4pBLAXl/tsoIxIwCm6fcTQPuyu uFw8CABoAoWHiULzghTwJKDoTOiWF6u6rQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzJMl8ao5oi9ngcdERmSahEuFisqOkm84/uezNDCEUnZ5N0sarvWqbnDJ5Rzo0e6Py3cRNjPA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4282:: with SMTP id v2mr3923853wmc.101.1618503536690; Thu, 15 Apr 2021 09:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.18.0.10] ([45.89.174.72]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b206sm3676217wmc.15.2021.04.15.09.18.56 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 15 Apr 2021 09:18:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers To: gcc@gcc.gnu.org References: <20210414131843.GA4138043@thyrsus.com> <093dbfde-a7b5-a55c-8a03-3e82460bce67@acm.org> <536f25dd-597c-0657-6c16-d73ef4c16280@gmail.com> <8bd7f4d5-70bf-7ef9-325f-2fdb53661f67@netcologne.de> From: Gabriel Ravier Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 18:18:54 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8bd7f4d5-70bf-7ef9-325f-2fdb53661f67@netcologne.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, NICE_REPLY_A, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2021 16:19:00 -0000 On 4/15/21 8:00 AM, Thomas Koenig via Gcc wrote: > My 0.02 Euro-Cent: > > There is a minor problem with contributors being overly harsh/ > borderline abusive on the mailing list.  In my > 15 years with > the project, I have only had that problem with one single > person, and I have resolved that by never again touching the > system that particular person is responsible for, also not > for testing. > > The _real_ problem is in bugzilla, mostly with abusive users > complaining about the time it sometimes takes to fix bugs > ("Why didn't you fix this?  Are you stupid or what? That bug > has been open for _weeks_!") or who will not understand that > their program has an error, and insist on the compiler sanctioning > their particular non-standard usage. As much as I hate to say it, this is a problem in the wider communities around C and C++, too. My teacher will often insist that "GCC and Clang make convenient assumptions at O2 and higher" without comprehending that the assumptions are "your code conforms to what the C/C++ standard says" and that this is the entire reason we have a standard, despite all my efforts at explaining things to him. > On bugzilla, there is also a rather minor problem with contributors > being overly harsh/borderline abusive, but that is also quite > restrictive. > > If we talk about gcc becoming a more welcoming place, bugzilla > is the place to start.