From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 927173857C61 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:30:59 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 927173857C61 X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs07.server.lan [172.19.170.175]) (via HTTP); Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:30:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Giacomo Tesio Cc: Nathan Sidwell , GCC Development Subject: Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 15:30:53 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <20210330151656.00007e20@tesio.it> References: <20210330151656.00007e20@tesio.it> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:RyXJH/cngaw84Rj3XQgmsYTcQAlgvP3wRt2/h6AuhEcp7nZhUfmVdNLOQ2SywUQe+y6Z2 X8+0dgcKjOLn7Im2/qA74FrvNIZAjUNUdTqkqWtcyDoTuqcbOkLiulLfQvDvA9N6qygG219Iw5/O EpxAT73fixKZQon6TSjfeAymr8jwMoFRwSY2FKn4BLpHQwkeunK+xWNPXlZbUoerrKLS6bJPleHb yB8Kf5XxIv4LkjiX6aFwvw2qJZpGEFofWm+4kwV6qZLW9WvzGJBbLPyt9DMDC664653yBJA0UfXU hs= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:xEfaues2bnk=:JiGaCrcup8WyfPhPUCXfOA 1HrBtAqPJY4W/iCS74qdPk/kKSTwOS68mfuVj/P5BkDR+YxLkA1uCvjSL1ucOpa1Et/FJdEf/ GjrrSJQ1/HMVHnbTm5f3QN1WMjoX1olUQcva5Fia38GbTXKdNH/aunI5rKj5hGA92l62tDO8q ZF/3sLCpB8Z3gR2YpuzHhx0FvthzX3v9oxINV7EWIYIJK6ibiA2BbwthHZk7i4phKJdTGOy75 VLaLpUhK94u0o2fRSn/RblOFtis8gqnqRpsSu6mvoTyl4Nv4314TEOcltFbDaxk94N/HvdVzV OHL7Of4iu8I0620R46uOxvC8rNbtcbNqBYIfBFWqaztWa76SHqc1byCKKCpq16YP0697XuLG4 u3xKgfjuDuysqFQKdWnvd0b5KymCZo22f/glLT7Tq5TGEQP7XKCSQySj0yd/Z7NTsne1KtPdw MyfUBs03htFUATeOiatE1wPivaBcbfENE3LO82CJQ7zIg1JytrEBNJbQP1irusnDF2Gh6m/uD w092O9HMySIF3HMIp00BR61k4kGc7TXUMOkCAKvOW2BLL0KRhljieinhX44poy9kUB0Z7ahDl GacMjfx8E1cKvJJWnLgzcPBvgM64IHSIUTYB+HK9632kr2vTRcqnHV3d0gfrMME6IVnPkobKd oM1+icQrRrUK8cqMkSti0g7/H6BSM9yiiZeKSAMs5eSAv8ybriTknbTVmDJDze4NldE3iGDu6 V2PIpy7QDxUWdpP4dA7WxM0/e0qoOET1ZyQn803R0pMsV4DsiGcdFmZ24tZiA36xQq9H+Y3mI wrIq7c/gwLEx1cP+yfL03lpzayJ3Lc3j3kEKwEE727Xk1RFsOggpQ0MnIP5nb1CvbYXS7BSVP /F+8hQkl+kUW2ztaU+bEow7qqgNtDgXu6t7mLtn6RJ6NM1jOqmZGBs/MR6TdNV Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 13:31:01 -0000 > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2021 at 1:16 AM > From: "Giacomo Tesio" > To: "Nathan Sidwell" > Cc: "GCC Development" > Subject: Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee > > Hi Nathan and hello everybody, > > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:02:30 -0400 Nathan Sidwell wrote: > > > The USA is not the world and the SC is not the US government. For > > those in the USA, the (inapplicable) first amendment provides 5 > > rights, including showing an unwelcome guest the door. [...] > > > > If we fail to do so, it will continue to be harder and harder to > > attract new talent to GCC development. > > I do not know if I qualify to speak here because I'm Italian and > I ported GCC 9.2.0 to Jehanne (a Plan 9 fork, see > http://jehanne.io/2021/01/06/gcc_on_jehanne.html), but due to the > pandemic I wasn't able to align it with the new developments and > contribute the port upstream. Also, I have no idea if you would be > interested in running GCC on a Plan 9 fork and thus accept my > contribution. > > > Yet, after a careful read of this thread I realized that I might > be considered the kind of "new talent" Nathan is talking about. > > So here is my perspective on this topic, "in the hope it helps but > without any warranty". :-D > > > I do not share many of Stallman's opinions (we are VERY different), but > when I write free software and contribute to a free software community, > what I want is long term assurances about one and only one topic: that > the software will stay free as in freedom, as a common good for the > whole humanity. > > As of today, GPLv3 is the legal tool that best suit this goal. > I don't think it's perfect in this regards, but that's another story. > > > As an Italian I'm having a hard time trying to follow your reasoning > about Stallman being a problem to attract new talents. > > I could understand such statement if he had committed actual crimes, > was legally persecuted, processed and condemned like Reiser. > > But while I try, I cannot really understand why you think that his name > in the Steering Committee would drive away people from contributing GCC > > > I ported GCC to Plan 9 because I want a free compiler suite for my OS. > > Porting CLANG would have been easier (to some extent) BUT my choice was > political and Stallman in the Steering Committee is a long term > warranty that GCC development will not steer away from the Free > Software conception that I know, betraying my trust. > > > My impression is that you are, in absolute good faith, projecting your > own culture (quite US-centric, as far as I can deduce by this thread) > to the whole world. Correct. Very good evaluation. > I do not really know if the removing Stallman from the Steering > Committee would attract more US people in GCC development. Or if it > would attract more US people that now prefer to work in LLVM only > because of they feel somehow bad working with Stallman in the SC. > > > But I can assure you that, as Pankaj Jangid said before me, many many > people are attracted to GCC, as users and developers, BECAUSE of > Stallman presence, because they know that something like this > https://medium.com/@giacomo_59737/what-i-wish-i-knew-before-contributing= -to-open-source-dd63acd20696 > will not happen to them. > > > World wide, people do not LIKE Stallman, but we TRUST him on this. > Just like the GPLv3, RMS is not perfect, but it does ONE THING well. > > > So, since you care about demographics, please consider that. > > Removing RMS you might attract more of certain US demographics, > but you will certainly alienate a lot of people world wide that > do not align your political values (despite respecting them a lot!) > and do not think that a compiler suite can fix US systemic issues > anyway. > > > As for me, I would NOT trust GCC (or FSF) in the long term, had > you to distance Stallman, because I've already seen with my eyes > what happen when people do not have anything to loose to betray your > trust, and Stallman has all to lose by betraying Free Software. > > > Maybe I'm not the "new talent" you are looking for. The Gnu Project looks for all kind of talent. > But please, do not turn GCC into a US-centric project. > Giacomo