From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 867633857C63 for ; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 21:29:55 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 867633857C63 X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs01.server.lan [172.19.170.58]) (via HTTP); Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:29:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Thomas Rodgers Cc: Giacomo Tesio , gcc@gcc.gnu.org, Pankaj Jangid Subject: Re: GCC association with the FSF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:29:51 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <20210407162454.GA22759@jocasta.intra> <20210409063749.GA8596@jocasta.intra> <04fa3173-9809-b905-8fa3-f6554b8ae7d7@hesbynett.no> <06eb8287-e6bb-270f-e5a5-730c10bb31ef@hesbynett.no> <20210409183631.GA29274@jocasta.intra> <69BA3B4D-C798-4700-B607-994588BD5D87@tesio.it> <3152a2058548d29589d2cead0c22038e@appliantology.com> <24086410-E4B4-4F87-A91F-53880B96FB85@tesio.it> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:2QgsA230EtHRDtSICSgleMzwtWA73+FTxyMdvblTwG63zQZsbMSrvVJBXrRDZCUm5NNfE tJWuPVtbcapZR4URn1PTM3EbQlOSo02L1cJHCH8NzGW49UekKWyrEgGthhQZdVZMFPalKORjhRq8 nLlt25DJPcLfUzG09MtudgvZV0VBmgjpl/1aNuKb+A1VzOUR5J1KqfTN1iEjNuZmgBj6zn+nHlUH uPI/ZrnlBl6iR4jueByXGG+A6UMdGlUhGnxwjkh5zW99U6KEa9MFRtjrfFF3Cr1FrKGEhhhgVz9B 4s= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:6LupLQLCfUY=:zDGI8/KIN4rkYVB/aDcJzw BVJyOq7Dc+ajEVqYvY0JQblldyeQYlaViPYMyUmugXVJsN/C99C+euxXOYtYBTRfV3HeEtytK UUcnV9Lpx7ysqVCSlLrLyrqel6vUm9dZQinmnn4CNbiTrDajhiB5dhCK3jcz/PjC25ukxCx9L pT9mm0eS1vXQ1Q7rIrSeHHM9w91WR14QPCIMdRWxWdBcBlpD00wTrNLfbjJlQZpdaDYWlOMOU PJMAvC3Um27UR1ACvl7xd0w6W48qaK8BoAdOGX22QG0b9uKkKzCLwqRNKHJsf4e0hvyfaJSKU +LcKKpmLWfXVEY53yKPKRR7GVT0Quh0egeFohl3qAWwItwDxDwogmqgpslSlbqXjF8PDwEwur c7LnVDX8m2jxWlBe0xkmMm/7ygNOiAH4UvVL1r0v5UC65ufTqN0rSMS1Fe3HWzhj1P4gPiKTx hAO7HTh3lY/JbgQGk+wWURd/0wDC0TvJQo5bVaBdgq9eUqJzJWjjbSPkdKTATNwHRlva2V+8B 7kfDjwbMX4Uem8thMH+9/G36PUq2Ek2Akw8HO+ZZHlJVHq88/Qfn61a9FHlQmQmJsVLlzRFNs FMVr5282fXtjm8dxhtU7Zrc9V5jaFkV3Litmh4Hx0lgITSola3Ehg3A/HFSOsQg5I5knc9Fok khK1Pep1e2/VFHlanXcmaxemklH8iTx9t/R224zA4KlGUe4tESKRyaeKgHkFWMFtgKN4SkKw1 QiZZbAMeSVd0QFp529kYG+DUCZ26xi3mzO7VvQtIuBcbt38ugvq81KEjldN6M5vaLz2HXpRt9 F7ymmdDF0uFwNB6xPzK08h+/99BaVGbIKgLuPloGt8a25lD4mvCtA41c8nU3d5m4rW6bMkhkN Mc6EgfUtIRNGtlz1ZAGE3MKDybVdOGT15diCuiccSM1Z7YtF+/ikm+tpoLbjnj Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 21:29:57 -0000 > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 7:52 AM > From: "Thomas Rodgers" > To: "Giacomo Tesio" > Cc: gcc@gcc.gnu.org, "Pankaj Jangid" > Subject: Re: GCC association with the FSF > > On 2021-04-10 09:01, Giacomo Tesio wrote: > > > It's fantastic how inclusive you are, isn't it? :-D > > > > Indeed you ARE inclusive to those who share your interests, like > > Nathan. > > Just not to everybody else. > > > > I share with Nathan an interest in making GCC the best C++ compiler and > standard library, and like Nathan, I work to help make that the case. It > is certainly true I don't have a lot of concern for the concerns of > those, whose only apparent contribution to the discussion is 'oooh evil > bad bigcorp's subverting mah compiler. I will go away now'. Companies have serious problems right now. The internet used to run as a US Benign Dictatorship, under the assumption that the US was generall= y behaving in the world's best interest. That trust has been lost. If you = are someone in some country somewhere, and you hear that the NSA is getting a = copy of everything. And IBM and Google have a Press Release saying that they have fixed a problem. Do you believe it? I sure don't. And many others = don't, and for good reasons. I also think that will be a bunch of other countrie= s that will do way worse than what the United States has done. If we are ag= ainst national means of intelligence, all bets are off. This is compounded by t= he fact that attack in much easier than defense. I don't think that's what we are= trying to defend against. We are trying to defend against bulk collection. But I tend to be optimistic, than humanity as a species tend to solve thes= e problems. It might take one or a few generations. We might have some terrible world= wars while we're solving it. But till now we have managed to have more freedom= , more rights, more liberty, century by century. People have to understand that companies and governments are not made of m= agic, that they are not breaking systems to anywhere near the extent that we thought = they were. This is the most important conclusion that can be taken from Snowden's doc= uments. The reality in that there are many things we can do to make ourselves much= more secure. I might have some reservations about Nathan and others regarding the RMS d= ebate, but not that many of them are likely to be consciously injecting malicious cod= e or introducing vulnerabilities. If business leaders change the way they look at life, instead of making a = whole lot of money and then contributing to some cause, they can structure their bus= iness in such a way that every customer is in some way a partner with them. However if companies and governments try to conquer people, they will have= to keep sitting on top of their head, and they will do everything to make the life= of business leaders miserable. Traditionally, military leaders were the most powerful people. In the las= t hundred years, political leaders were the most powerful. But now and in the futur= e, economic leaders will be the most powerful. We have to start working with economic leaders to make a difference in the= way they make decisions, and in the way they conduct their businesses. This is be= ing done, but is being done very discreetly because it is something that today canno= t be handled publicly. > > Yet I only asked to fix the Steering Committee AFTER the only credible > > no-profit protecting free software (FSF) was removed. > > > > But I'm a "concern troll", right? > > > > I think everybody can see who is who. ;-) > > > > Indeed. >