From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD6FE3858D33 for ; Sun, 28 Mar 2021 04:09:00 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org BD6FE3858D33 X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs05.server.lan [172.19.170.173]) (via HTTP); Sun, 28 Mar 2021 06:08:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Cc: gcc@gcc.gnu.org Subject: Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 06:08:58 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87sg4gf1x6.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <87wntsf2f6.fsf@telefonica.net> <87sg4gf1x6.fsf@telefonica.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:lWIPj8iAR65tr7PyZBMNukXAqlsCOss1THsoiXjaywOwVbKEdwnnhl9Ulih042Yci1vZ5 wAV36Rh9gZ9c/QY+UD1mXoshvylq/cfNtXOtam6dWiMBhrXLZPH2TzCwNokrrxlKoNc4KuliZcZU 3sMVUfGqORy9nwEFzuE2vDbhVyD/0leYkcA1C+AD9KoLUWO7I3VA9wT57JSlrELpGxb+c/+/k/ao 6xQgYEYkUEJbqe8CKPKdN0xVxbU/4lSNMyj7eBQhOR3h2kOWHoyFeBvOaHFlgtToBxzvKQsZshZ0 UY= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Hb+ZDtrmZKY=:R3Sf9FJ9UcO/CzYyB5xMZe KZm7UJNojh3ldB/1zoovC4oPv3rAFvz9WSNMnWlPsIfAzxfrby6HwCAgCm/Iq2fihZdCz7W5K M4t+g+iDBbWxChlWIUs5OT67OBKjf5JUNQUFdtXkRX0k08YsTn3liT7VLGuopL1Y6KAOq15Fr 2bpK+bxiQnwwCjtr19yo1tVdSzK8u5hYX2WLwkKtHU5j3Vc70b49zogxq2cNboOLjrxNxWtV6 rEXsm9wd+VCUWHmhdGMRNEPZf5XB03fA4yk+7Vad2rI0BHck+HCM6L2Cn1+ZjAxW6nVrf8GcV DajMgMYwx4do+rRLydSOuerLwtTezu5Ft59FtLfnxYZ/c1wTSZ8j/2Jk1LKvtlPDLRbEGnjiW TDJaTsqM0FwgyYraPkS5In3TI8WsCPp5BtilW6cjwKeMPdQuFTz9BEJVs0mFINx5TRyn9gQH0 hvHbKtQu1TwSFW1ZkjsaF6Pon5OeTKVd+nyjtxu+cnmv1f5ScVF5okfJqN7kuoYl7fQY+LK1X kPD/Pc3XnWbHcCeUKXX8veU3LmxiK/CeYD3v56jNzrL+EDabPxGWrKu0GsWlGxhBWM8H04xxZ kkc9T51rq4HuXvVfCQDy8gm57Wr7jV0GC+5bRYzvLyPCbo87K2VjjCbUGZB7f0Wnon/Uv8EKQ usYcSwAuFmvuHb/wRp7OaUX5f7mvApv7ccLfF/0HaAk4HyVNZfrjxuCOLOGXZD17ecB6kwbT4 H012pBnjAaalYW5Qu+scsVNw8B1utyQXx2oSPhZ6A0ioK8Urtz8bw8Dgj1JTXFgHr7f2wVaGE S6Jqd1mdT5uk+FE7WahZ1Eu4YcGN5+m63fbWOw1u/QnYMzpaZbxph2PPMNmSGH39lRo4SOrE9 knyUU0lxOYxB9mWJjtzRcgHqy7WjuViJZfHdp8mYQT86Er6LQAYaD5a6dflcDY X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2021 04:09:03 -0000 The socialist collective angry bullshit will go on rising from the dead=2E Richard Stallman executed a truly extraordinary feat that has never been accomplished by anyone before=2E --------------------- Christopher Dimech General Administrator - Naiad Informatics - GNU Project (Geocomputation) - Geophysical Simulation - Geological Subsurface Mapping - Disaster Preparedness and Mitigation - Natural Resource Exploration and Production - Free Software Advocacy > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 at 2:27 PM > From: "=C3=93scar Fuentes" > To: gcc@gcc=2Egnu=2Eorg > Subject: Re: Remove RMS from the GCC Steering Committee > > This was meant to be sent by private e-mail=2E I'm sorry it was sent to > the list by mistake, it was not my intention to stir this debate=2E >=20 > I invite everyone to keep discussing this topic in a cold-headed way=2E > Specially, I'll like to see the base problem (lack of diversity) > addresed, instead of its hypothetical cause (and even more hypothetical > solution=2E) Let's see if, for once, instead of grand symbolic gestures > that solve nothing the problem is attacked with effective and sustained > measures=2E >=20 > Sorry again for my intrusion on the list=2E >=20 > =C3=93scar Fuentes writes: >=20 > > We on the West are on the brink of entering into a new cycle of social > > madness, fueled by Postmodern nonsense=2E > > > > Thank you for being brave enough to confront the self-righteous mob, a= nd > > thank you for doing it with such equanimity and eloquence=2E > > > > Alexandre Oliva via Gcc writes: > > > >> Nathan, > >> > >> I think you identify an important problem of gender imbalance in our > >> community=2E It is quite likely that finding ways to make our commun= ity > >> more welcoming to demographic groups that are currently less present > >> than in the distribution in the global population could reduce this > >> imbalance=2E > >> > >> However, your diagnosis as to the supposed cause of the problem makes= no > >> sense to me=2E You said yourself that Stallman has not participated = in > >> our community for decades=2E Much as I know, his very hands-off infl= uence > >> in the SC has been mostly limited to licensing and strategic issues, > >> e=2Eg=2E the GPLv3 and Runtime Exception relicensing, to ensure copyl= eft > >> defenses were in place to avoid abuse of such features as plugins=2E > >> > >> > >> It may be very convenient to paint a boogey-man and expel it because > >> that became fashionable=2E But sacrificing a goat or a lamb does not > >> expiate our own sins, and expelling someone who hasn't even been pres= ent > >> in the community can't be expected to make any real difference to tha= t > >> matter; it would rather make us seem *less* welcoming and more > >> intolerant, and suggest other motivations for the move=2E > >> > >> > >> Let's be real and honest, when was the last time anyone in the GCC > >> community was called out for sexist behavior? When was there even > >> conversation about it, and about how sexist behavior is not acceptabl= e > >> and not to be accepted among participants in the GCC community? What > >> was our latest collective action to promote e=2Eg=2E gender equity wi= thin > >> the community? > >> > >> If we were to shift our collective blame over this very real and > >> undesirable problem to someone who has any direct authority over the > >> project, why not suggesting expelling e=2Eg=2E the entire Steering Co= mmittee > >> for its evident failure to address the problem? (I don't think it's = a > >> good idea, but that would be the first thing to try if we were to bla= me > >> "management"/"leadership" rather than ourselves for it) > >> > >> What could support any rational belief that having RMS one extra leve= l > >> removed from our technical community would bring about anything > >> resembling a solution to the very undesirable and unjust gender > >> imbalance you've correctly identified? > >> > >> > >> The action you propose, besides the absence of effect in making our > >> community actually more welcoming, because he's already absent, would > >> send the opposite of a welcoming signal to people with controversial = or > >> impopular opinions, to people at a certain spot in the neurodiversity > >> spectrum, and to many others who oppose this sort of mob rule=2E > >> > >> > >> How about we set out to take individual and collective actions that > >> actually address the problem *in* our community? We don't need anyon= e's > >> approval to call out sexist acts, nor to invite and train people with= an > >> interest in compiler technology, nor to maintain a welcoming atmosphe= re=2E > >> > >> A regime of terror to maintain a false appearance of a welcoming > >> atmosphere won't get us there=2E > >> > >> If we undertake such actions, individually or collecetively, you migh= t > >> be surprised (but I won't be) that he, even absent from the community= , > >> would support these actions, which is the very opposite of the pictur= e > >> you paint=2E > >> > >> Our taking effective action on our own would help show what the real > >> issues and intents are, and it would tell apart those who are really > >> interested in solving the gender imbalance and the social injustices > >> causing it, like you and me, from those who are abusing that flag as = a > >> trojan horse to serve nefarious purposes, as suggested and illustrate= d > >> in https://ultralux97=2Emedium=2Ecom/stallman-must-be-removed-a3061b0= 9fb22 >=20 >