From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 521A03989C8D for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 05:06:56 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 521A03989C8D X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs06.server.lan [172.19.170.174]) (via HTTP); Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:06:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Frosku Cc: Thomas Rodgers , Jonathan Wakely , Jonathan Wakely via Gcc Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 07:06:50 +0200 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <40f0e05b-3156-a649-b636-c90b8b8e0f8@pfeifer.com> <4A7DE074-9600-4513-A05C-566926D447BE@tesio.it> <535f1dcf-2258-c817-cf72-5c49dc9e5823@hesbynett.no> <20210418131052.GB320802@thyrsus.com> <92c014fc39022ea03c6c801bb76ab39674e8a6fb.camel@redhat.com> <542eb0298a485953602e0f28f94b9f03@appliantology.com> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:JSLgMsLqAFzVrN/HCJyPF9hchO3HN2IvUSiBBsEYn6GDy5WV1SGPl4zNcMPugXXZ54I+x lr6Oy1Am5vKQyZLsEY14FyZM50zu4DDukgwJbFymW07RelIf+MEoFQWg5ZYcmNS8QWoF5C9kEGYR OdfJaIUvRGeFtT4O+reFjoV+sngtpign+Tvdk1hZmaK5B430Ga//uUBeMfCfP6iSq/XskSDM4t2T I62KaBPN5+HC9reM4RzcuRUcxU0e3nBnm5W7eRhtTsHl5AjZmjdk9V+WYIA9xddzoEMD6BdD8mcQ qc= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:yNhQCa3yAdc=:lWcT4nHyrsI/Xf1oEViyEr GK6P9g5mFwrqx+T5nH8jWyXx9dDgvjqkDkSVW3iN8xKNCiS0c33jINEi4LRsDczNdl+ywWz2W fHSwHJKbQKLpNVxoA4IJPx6rL2dVRKkwRgTrDrHpNEAhaTMLec+9oy8AbyXpbDnAJgA/Zr0fG Do0gmlVzl1haHJM/GGiZX+EZVWX0bttLA6zSa9dKny5DFgIHWhhETGO8yy3h+Szj/BQWF4KVB rfL38Mt8tSYzP9lf8F3QEEio5R7BG9dKUKUY6ylVOXhL1T3UsEk4utqpkXM+m5t3BQbCEjg9o BJR/CDduURajriBRZ82iSdREw6ZawgR3xB5EDc0q9GORqhgpSIb7Rixu/GkDTqdg1HDTG1uXi f9AgMq7kTpFTNnFihlUWHHUIKKy+psLRMPNiTIa15wavi+k79ywqQPf7hVLx5hyrlmFDQuV3x 3vluCPmDwQ8bd4e53RPAY0zenUvqo0XqwG17F7eOYrjzGICT7uvdSd8JnhvD6jEQV04+LpzCh eEDUnD/mcz2gkig6tL7RyENWoeqrgsgOL7we3jkp03AEwsSyXzFmWr0p8vBYAtz0z4nLnODfd ilyjgRxCOF6n96Cyk8qU7klMhh9WUfseLcQR8dTc2rtmfp62jlvHekK2OKg8xJOgw88vcU9LB Fzfvj48aRwbp0mLyXoJ7Oq1i2PwMUPXVH/TBAQveSC6aK827z6+tVOo2TUl+ST77Dj/WVptHh 96LBZwbqNhhV7ESpMQMP2YwZO9zmTLO7crI0PWN1k5hsKmNB5R2aFenTQrdyvG3dKbu5+wqVx GLWJ3M+cKDl0S8NSD9eKmYD+8tX199NO5ElIDhIkp2wqgPkUDDKjJOCG4/TcxgYKbXBH54jxP e8T5pQR/KbMwsXEArlxXDY8DLSbSSeeVSZJOijPbWQR/XCOSK4mjshjkLBYZXw Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3030.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, FREEMAIL_FROM, LIKELY_SPAM_BODY, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: gcc@gcc.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Gcc mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2021 05:06:58 -0000 > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 3:47 PM > From: "Frosku" > To: "Thomas Rodgers" , "Jonathan Wakely" > Cc: "Jonathan Wakely via Gcc" > Subject: Re: removing toxic emailers > > On Mon Apr 19, 2021 at 4:06 PM BST, Thomas Rodgers wrote: > > Google doesn't pay anybody to work on GCC all day. You know nothing > > about > > GCC or the "problems" you're complaining about. Your input to this > > conversation is not constructive. > > This feels like that moment in 8Mile, "pay attention, you're saying the > same shit that he said." The personal insults and technical semantic > arguments are testament to the fact that you're not willing or not able > to argue the points. It's quite incredible that two people have replied > to the same multiple-hundred word e-mail about a broad issue of trying > to gatekeep discussion and both have focused on semantics ("it's not > *all* day"). I will remember not to use hyperbole in future for fear of > it being taken literally and used as an excuse to dodge the point. > > > > Once upon a time, free software developers understood that users' > > > opinions > > > were as valid as contributor's opinions. > > > > That depends on the user. > > > > Once upon a time, free software's developers *were* it's primary users= , > > i.e. they built the technology for themselves and made it freely > > available in the hope that it would be useful to others. It's also the > > case that the vast majority of GCC *current* users are not here making > > proclamations about what GCC's project governance should be. Rather it= 's > > a vocal and vanishingly small minority, who have contributed nothing o= f > > value, code or insights, and continue to vocally do so. Many of GCC's > > users are, however, watching in horror at the absolutely amateurish wa= y > > in which this is playing out and wondering if their long term commitme= nt > > should be to using this piece of software to build their > > products/businesses. > > It's obvious that the majority of current users aren't here, the majorit= y of > current users don't use the mailing lists. What have you done to try to > consult their opinions on the matter? It's amazing how much effort is be= ing > expended to silence opposition, whilst not even one argument has been ma= de > as to how breaking from FSF/GNU will result in a better technical outcom= e. Is that right!!! Users want to build their products and businesses? Sounds very corporate to me, with wording that suggests the provision of resources working on other projects for personal profit. The users watching in horror are most likely developers who see Richard Stallman as an obstacle. GCC can never break from Gnu. They can only break from gnu, clone gcc and= call it something else such as gcc-fuckup, gcc-screw and the like. Then, if th= ey manage to fuckup the licensing or the compatibility with Gcc, we shall wai= t for a new generation of forward thinking hackers to join us. The success of G= cc was achieved to large extent due to the personal efforts of Rms. These people never learned from the Cygnus EGCS Saga, because they cannot = get beyond the short-sighted viewpoint of "always disobey every authority". The U.S.S. Cygnus was a "Death Ship". Reinhardt had planned to fly her through the black hole but suffered sever damage and was torn apart. > >>=3D %frosku =3D { os =3D> 'gnu+linux', editor =3D> 'emacs', coffee =3D= > 1 } =3D<< >