Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jason Merrill]

Um, what is the problem exactly with egcs@cygnus.com just bouncing to
egcs@egcs.cygnus.com?  Why can't the filters handle that?

Jason

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On 2 Feb 1999, Jason Merrill wrote:
> Um, what is the problem exactly with egcs@cygnus.com just bouncing to
> egcs@egcs.cygnus.com?  Why can't the filters handle that?

The filters (at least RBL MAPS and ORBS, that is) are based on the IP
address of the server sending the mail.

Now, if instead of
  LISTED SERVER --> egcs [secured]
you have
  LISTED SERVER --> cygnus.com [unsecured, but not listed] --> egcs
the blocks on the egcs machine won't help.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Gerald Pfeifer]

On 2 Feb 1999, Jason Merrill wrote:
> Um, what is the problem exactly with egcs@cygnus.com just bouncing to
> egcs@egcs.cygnus.com?  Why can't the filters handle that?

The filters (at least RBL MAPS and ORBS, that is) are based on the IP
address of the server sending the mail.

Now, if instead of
  LISTED SERVER --> egcs [secured]
you have
  LISTED SERVER --> cygnus.com [unsecured, but not listed] --> egcs
the blocks on the egcs machine won't help.

Gerald
-- 
Gerald Pfeifer (Jerry)      Vienna University of Technology
pfeifer@dbai.tuwien.ac.at   http://www.dbai.tuwien.ac.at/~pfeifer/

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jason Merrill]

Um, what is the problem exactly with egcs@cygnus.com just bouncing to
egcs@egcs.cygnus.com?  Why can't the filters handle that?

Jason

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[postmaster]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 943 bytes --]

Den 01-Feb-99 17:21:45 skrev Joe Buck følgende om "Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!":
>> We'll probably have an auto-reply for all the old addresses.

> Which won't reach the people who spam-protect their email address
> when mailing to large mailing lists (or just out of habit).

   It will if they do it properly. ;-)

Regards,

/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯T¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯\
| Rask Ingemann Lambertsen     | postmaster@rask.nospam.kampsax.k-net.dk |
| Registered Phase5 developer  | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/   |
| A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64)  | "ThrustMe" on XPilot and EFnet IRC      |
|              Do artificial plants need artificial water?               |

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message <3.0.6.32.19990201010831.00880950@pop.netaddress.com>you write:
  > Grr. I subscribe to the EGCS mailing list at egcs.cygnus.com and set a mail
  > filter to filter anything with a To: or Cc: containing
  > "egcs@egcs.cygnus.com" into an 'egcs' folder, figuring that it isn't likely
  > that anyone would BCc: to the list and confound the filter.
  > 
  > Trouble is, it seems you can post to the list using just "egcs@cygnus.com",
  > since I keep finding a shitload of egcs mail in my main Inbox with this on
  > the Cc: line!
The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 1999.

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Rask Ingemann Lambertsen]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1377 bytes --]

Den 02-Feb-99 00:52:33 skrev Paul Derbyshire følgende om "Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!":
> At 11:00 AM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:
>>Sure it has a Sender: header. Just enable the "BlahBlah" button of the
>>message in Eudora and you will see it.

> I know about that button, dammit, and trust me it's not there. Neither is
> the "From " header. I looked for both of those in the very message I'm
> replying to, and saw neither. Tehre was an X-Sender: but there was no
> mention of owner-egcs in it.

   IIRC, RFC1123 requires Internet mail systems to preserve the envelope
sender address. This is what the "From " header is normally used for. Perhaps
there is a Return-Path: header instead?

   Btw, my copies of the messages all have the Sender: header.

Regards,

/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯T¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯\
| Rask Ingemann Lambertsen       | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk  |
| Registered Phase5 developer    | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ |
| A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64)    | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC  |
|To err is human. To forgive is beyond the scope of the Operating System.|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Joe Buck]

>   > Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail address
>   > for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
>   > your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.
> We'll probably have an auto-reply for all the old addresses.

Which won't reach the people who spam-protect their email address
when mailing to large mailing lists (or just out of habit).

We probably should archive the old messages at least for some transition
period.

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < or4sp6b12f.fsf@araguaia.dcc.unicamp.br >you write:
  > On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@upchuck.cygnus.com> wrote:
  > 
  > > The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 199
  > 9.
  > 
  > What about the following error message, printed by egcs 1.1.1?
  > 
  > bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.
An FYI -- I fixed all the addresses about a week ago :-)

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Franz Sirl]

At 07:50 01.02.99 , Paul Derbyshire wrote:
>>Pardon the 'me too!', but I've found this regexp (from .procmailrc)
>>to work rather well:
>>
>>	^Sender:.*owner-egcs
>
>Mine doesn't come with a Sender: header...there's an X-Sender: header but
>it's the message originator again and not owner-egcs.

Sure it has a Sender: header. Just enable the "BlahBlah" button of the
message in Eudora and you will see it.
So you can either filter on:
"Sender:" contains "owner-egcs"
or
"Delivered-To:" contains "egcs@egcs.cygnus.com"
in Eudora. You'll see that neither one one of these headers is
preconfigured in Eudora's header popup list, but you can simply overtype
one of the preconfigured headers.

Franz.

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < or1zkab0ou.fsf@araguaia.dcc.unicamp.br >you write:
  > No, I mean, we must keep at least egcs-bugs@cygnus.com as a valid
  > address, otherwise people that don't know about the change won't be
  > able to submit bug reports against egcs 1.1.1, that will probably
  > still be floating around for a long time :-(
  > 
  > Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail address
  > for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
  > your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.
We'll probably have an auto-reply for all the old addresses.

And we'll be changing the address in that message RSN.

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Alexandre Oliva]

On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@upchuck.cygnus.com> wrote:

> The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 1999.

What about the following error message, printed by egcs 1.1.1?

bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.

-- 
Alexandre Oliva  http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~oliva  aoliva@{acm.org}
oliva@{dcc.unicamp.br,gnu.org,egcs.cygnus.com,samba.org}
Universidade Estadual de Campinas, SP, Brasil

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[N8TM]

In a message dated 2/1/99 4:07:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, pderbysh@usa.net
writes:

<< all the guy has
 to do who sees it is
 1. Note "hmm, the damned address changed." which is what you want to remind
 them.
 2. Hit "reply".
 3. Edit away the notice and prefix symbols on the requoted message.
 4. Send. >>
Don't do this with Windoze-based e-mail systems, like the ones I'm using.
Mouse the whole text into a new message, or use the re-send in Groupwise.
I've annoyed too many people by forwarding bounced messages, which turn to
rubbish.  Still, the point is well made, that we don't want to have to figure
out whether it was an important message which was bounced, or just a reply to
someone who doesn't care enough about the answer to his questions to un-block
his incoming e-mail.

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 199902011621.IAA00385@atrus.synopsys.com >you write:
  > 
  > >   > Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail addres
  > s
  > >   > for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
  > >   > your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.
  > > We'll probably have an auto-reply for all the old addresses.
  > 
  > Which won't reach the people who spam-protect their email address
  > when mailing to large mailing lists (or just out of habit).
Yea, but we don't care about them.  I'll mean someone (sysadmin) will get a
lost of bounced messages, but that's someone else's problem :-)


  > We probably should archive the old messages at least for some transition
  > period.
We'll continue to have all the messages in archive form.

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Rask Ingemann Lambertsen]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1770 bytes --]

Den 01-Feb-99 07:08:31 skrev Paul Derbyshire følgende om "[Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!":
> Grr. I subscribe to the EGCS mailing list at egcs.cygnus.com and set a mail
> filter to filter anything with a To: or Cc: containing
> "egcs@egcs.cygnus.com" into an 'egcs' folder, figuring that it isn't likely
> that anyone would BCc: to the list and confound the filter.

   Mail sorting based on To:, Cc: or Bcc: headers hasn't ever worked, doesn't
work, and won't ever work. This doesn't seem to stop people from trying to do
so anyway. :-(

> Trouble is, it seems you can post to the list using just "egcs@cygnus.com",
> since I keep finding a shitload of egcs mail in my main Inbox with this on
> the Cc: line!

   Good example of why it hasn't ever worked, doesn't work and won't ever work.

   Searching for the

	Delivered-To: mailing list egcs@egcs.cygnus.com

header does work. Always. Reliably.

   Since it is quite normal for list subscribers of today not to know how
how do set up their mail readers, perhaps it should be mentioned somewhere
that this header appears in all egcs mailing list mail, so as to at least
provide the initial clue.

Regards,

/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯T¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯\
| Rask Ingemann Lambertsen       | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk  |
| Registered Phase5 developer    | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ |
| A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64)    | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC  |
| Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" till you can find a rock  |

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

>Which won't reach the people who spam-protect their email address
>when mailing to large mailing lists (or just out of habit).

If you munge your reply-to when sending to mailing lists you deserve what
you get -- or fail to get. Any decent mailing list will kick off anyone who
posts spam to the list or is suspected of harvesting on it.
-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Alexandre Oliva]

On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@hurl.cygnus.com> wrote:

>   In message < or4sp6b12f.fsf@araguaia.dcc.unicamp.br >you write:
>> On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@upchuck.cygnus.com> wrote:

>> > The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 199
>> 9.

>> What about the following error message, printed by egcs 1.1.1?

>> bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.

> Easily fixed ;-)

No, I mean, we must keep at least egcs-bugs@cygnus.com as a valid
address, otherwise people that don't know about the change won't be
able to submit bug reports against egcs 1.1.1, that will probably
still be floating around for a long time :-(

Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail address
for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.

-- 
Alexandre Oliva  http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~oliva  aoliva@{acm.org}
oliva@{dcc.unicamp.br,gnu.org,egcs.cygnus.com,samba.org}
Universidade Estadual de Campinas, SP, Brasil

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < or4sp6b12f.fsf@araguaia.dcc.unicamp.br >you write:
  > On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@upchuck.cygnus.com> wrote:
  > 
  > > The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 199
  > 9.
  > 
  > What about the following error message, printed by egcs 1.1.1?
  > 
  > bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.
Easily fixed ;-)

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

At 01:31 PM 2/1/99 -0200, you wrote:
>Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail address
>for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
>your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.

MAKE THAT THING QUOTE BACK THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE!! I've seen a few systems
where outgoing mail is either not automatically saved or isn't even saved
at all, and people using such systems will experience "please submit your
report again" as meaning "Please struggle to remember all that you wrote
and then rewrite it slowly and painstakingly from scratch, and at the end,
remember to use the right address!". This is why mailer_daemon mail quotes
back the bounced message too.
Best would be to have it send the message described, quote the oiginal
below it, and have a Reply-To: of egcs-bugs@egcs.com. Then all the guy has
to do who sees it is
1. Note "hmm, the damned address changed." which is what you want to remind
them.
2. Hit "reply".
3. Edit away the notice and prefix symbols on the requoted message.
4. Send.
5. Use the new address now.

-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

At 08:06 PM 2/1/99 +0000, you wrote:
>  Sender: owner-egcs@egcs.cygnus.com
>
>which is guarenteed to be in any message sent through this list.

I don't get any Sender: headers in my incoming egcs mail, interestingly
enough.
-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Ken Raeburn]

Jeffrey A Law <law@hurl.cygnus.com> writes:

>   > bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.
> Easily fixed ;-)

Retroactively?  Or do you expect people to update to a new egcs
release within the next 28 days?  We need *something* at that address,
even if it's a vacation-like program telling people to use the new
address.

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

At 11:00 AM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:
>Sure it has a Sender: header. Just enable the "BlahBlah" button of the
>message in Eudora and you will see it.

I know about that button, dammit, and trust me it's not there. Neither is
the "From " header. I looked for both of those in the very message I'm
replying to, and saw neither. Tehre was an X-Sender: but there was no
mention of owner-egcs in it.


-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < or4sp6b12f.fsf@araguaia.dcc.unicamp.br >you write:
  > On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@upchuck.cygnus.com> wrote:
  > 
  > > The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 199
  > 9.
  > 
  > What about the following error message, printed by egcs 1.1.1?
  > 
  > bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.
An FYI -- I fixed all the addresses about a week ago :-)

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Rask Ingemann Lambertsen]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1769 bytes --]

Den 01-Feb-99 07:08:31 skrev Paul Derbyshire følgende om "[Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!":
> Grr. I subscribe to the EGCS mailing list at egcs.cygnus.com and set a mail
> filter to filter anything with a To: or Cc: containing
> "egcs@egcs.cygnus.com" into an 'egcs' folder, figuring that it isn't likely
> that anyone would BCc: to the list and confound the filter.

   Mail sorting based on To:, Cc: or Bcc: headers hasn't ever worked, doesn't
work, and won't ever work. This doesn't seem to stop people from trying to do
so anyway. :-(

> Trouble is, it seems you can post to the list using just "egcs@cygnus.com",
> since I keep finding a shitload of egcs mail in my main Inbox with this on
> the Cc: line!

   Good example of why it hasn't ever worked, doesn't work and won't ever work.

   Searching for the

	Delivered-To: mailing list egcs@egcs.cygnus.com

header does work. Always. Reliably.

   Since it is quite normal for list subscribers of today not to know how
how do set up their mail readers, perhaps it should be mentioned somewhere
that this header appears in all egcs mailing list mail, so as to at least
provide the initial clue.

Regards,

/¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯T¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯\
| Rask Ingemann Lambertsen       | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.k-net.dk  |
| Registered Phase5 developer    | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ |
| A4000, 775 kkeys/s (RC5-64)    | "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC  |
| Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" till you can find a rock  |

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[N8TM]

In a message dated 2/1/99 4:07:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, pderbysh@usa.net
writes:

<< all the guy has
 to do who sees it is
 1. Note "hmm, the damned address changed." which is what you want to remind
 them.
 2. Hit "reply".
 3. Edit away the notice and prefix symbols on the requoted message.
 4. Send. >>
Don't do this with Windoze-based e-mail systems, like the ones I'm using.
Mouse the whole text into a new message, or use the re-send in Groupwise.
I've annoyed too many people by forwarding bounced messages, which turn to
rubbish.  Still, the point is well made, that we don't want to have to figure
out whether it was an important message which was bounced, or just a reply to
someone who doesn't care enough about the answer to his questions to un-block
his incoming e-mail.

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

>Which won't reach the people who spam-protect their email address
>when mailing to large mailing lists (or just out of habit).

If you munge your reply-to when sending to mailing lists you deserve what
you get -- or fail to get. Any decent mailing list will kick off anyone who
posts spam to the list or is suspected of harvesting on it.
-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

At 01:31 PM 2/1/99 -0200, you wrote:
>Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail address
>for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
>your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.

MAKE THAT THING QUOTE BACK THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE!! I've seen a few systems
where outgoing mail is either not automatically saved or isn't even saved
at all, and people using such systems will experience "please submit your
report again" as meaning "Please struggle to remember all that you wrote
and then rewrite it slowly and painstakingly from scratch, and at the end,
remember to use the right address!". This is why mailer_daemon mail quotes
back the bounced message too.
Best would be to have it send the message described, quote the oiginal
below it, and have a Reply-To: of egcs-bugs@egcs.com. Then all the guy has
to do who sees it is
1. Note "hmm, the damned address changed." which is what you want to remind
them.
2. Hit "reply".
3. Edit away the notice and prefix symbols on the requoted message.
4. Send.
5. Use the new address now.

-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

At 11:00 AM 2/1/99 +0100, you wrote:
>Sure it has a Sender: header. Just enable the "BlahBlah" button of the
>message in Eudora and you will see it.

I know about that button, dammit, and trust me it's not there. Neither is
the "From " header. I looked for both of those in the very message I'm
replying to, and saw neither. Tehre was an X-Sender: but there was no
mention of owner-egcs in it.


-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

At 08:06 PM 2/1/99 +0000, you wrote:
>  Sender: owner-egcs@egcs.cygnus.com
>
>which is guarenteed to be in any message sent through this list.

I don't get any Sender: headers in my incoming egcs mail, interestingly
enough.
-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < 199902011621.IAA00385@atrus.synopsys.com >you write:
  > 
  > >   > Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail addres
  > s
  > >   > for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
  > >   > your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.
  > > We'll probably have an auto-reply for all the old addresses.
  > 
  > Which won't reach the people who spam-protect their email address
  > when mailing to large mailing lists (or just out of habit).
Yea, but we don't care about them.  I'll mean someone (sysadmin) will get a
lost of bounced messages, but that's someone else's problem :-)


  > We probably should archive the old messages at least for some transition
  > period.
We'll continue to have all the messages in archive form.

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Joe Buck]

>   > Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail address
>   > for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
>   > your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.
> We'll probably have an auto-reply for all the old addresses.

Which won't reach the people who spam-protect their email address
when mailing to large mailing lists (or just out of habit).

We probably should archive the old messages at least for some transition
period.

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Ken Raeburn]

Jeffrey A Law <law@hurl.cygnus.com> writes:

>   > bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.
> Easily fixed ;-)

Retroactively?  Or do you expect people to update to a new egcs
release within the next 28 days?  We need *something* at that address,
even if it's a vacation-like program telling people to use the new
address.

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < or1zkab0ou.fsf@araguaia.dcc.unicamp.br >you write:
  > No, I mean, we must keep at least egcs-bugs@cygnus.com as a valid
  > address, otherwise people that don't know about the change won't be
  > able to submit bug reports against egcs 1.1.1, that will probably
  > still be floating around for a long time :-(
  > 
  > Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail address
  > for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
  > your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.
We'll probably have an auto-reply for all the old addresses.

And we'll be changing the address in that message RSN.

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Alexandre Oliva]

On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@hurl.cygnus.com> wrote:

>   In message < or4sp6b12f.fsf@araguaia.dcc.unicamp.br >you write:
>> On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@upchuck.cygnus.com> wrote:

>> > The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 199
>> 9.

>> What about the following error message, printed by egcs 1.1.1?

>> bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.

> Easily fixed ;-)

No, I mean, we must keep at least egcs-bugs@cygnus.com as a valid
address, otherwise people that don't know about the change won't be
able to submit bug reports against egcs 1.1.1, that will probably
still be floating around for a long time :-(

Either the relay or an automatic reply saying ``the new e-mail address
for reporting egcs bugs is egcs-bugs@egcs.cygnus.com, please submit
your report again, sorry for the inconvenience''.

-- 
Alexandre Oliva  http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~oliva  aoliva@{acm.org}
oliva@{dcc.unicamp.br,gnu.org,egcs.cygnus.com,samba.org}
Universidade Estadual de Campinas, SP, Brasil

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message < or4sp6b12f.fsf@araguaia.dcc.unicamp.br >you write:
  > On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@upchuck.cygnus.com> wrote:
  > 
  > > The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 199
  > 9.
  > 
  > What about the following error message, printed by egcs 1.1.1?
  > 
  > bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.
Easily fixed ;-)

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Alexandre Oliva]

On Feb  1, 1999, Jeffrey A Law <law@upchuck.cygnus.com> wrote:

> The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 1999.

What about the following error message, printed by egcs 1.1.1?

bug.c:3: Please submit a full bug report to `egcs-bugs@cygnus.com'.

-- 
Alexandre Oliva  http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~oliva  aoliva@{acm.org}
oliva@{dcc.unicamp.br,gnu.org,egcs.cygnus.com,samba.org}
Universidade Estadual de Campinas, SP, Brasil

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Jeffrey A Law]

  In message <3.0.6.32.19990201010831.00880950@pop.netaddress.com>you write:
  > Grr. I subscribe to the EGCS mailing list at egcs.cygnus.com and set a mail
  > filter to filter anything with a To: or Cc: containing
  > "egcs@egcs.cygnus.com" into an 'egcs' folder, figuring that it isn't likely
  > that anyone would BCc: to the list and confound the filter.
  > 
  > Trouble is, it seems you can post to the list using just "egcs@cygnus.com",
  > since I keep finding a shitload of egcs mail in my main Inbox with this on
  > the Cc: line!
The @cygnus.com relays are scheduled to go away on or around March 1, 1999.

jeff

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Franz Sirl]

At 07:50 01.02.99 , Paul Derbyshire wrote:
>>Pardon the 'me too!', but I've found this regexp (from .procmailrc)
>>to work rather well:
>>
>>	^Sender:.*owner-egcs
>
>Mine doesn't come with a Sender: header...there's an X-Sender: header but
>it's the message originator again and not owner-egcs.

Sure it has a Sender: header. Just enable the "BlahBlah" button of the
message in Eudora and you will see it.
So you can either filter on:
"Sender:" contains "owner-egcs"
or
"Delivered-To:" contains "egcs@egcs.cygnus.com"
in Eudora. You'll see that neither one one of these headers is
preconfigured in Eudora's header popup list, but you can simply overtype
one of the preconfigured headers.

Franz.

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Alexandre Oliva]

On Feb  1, 1999, Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net> wrote:

> At 05:13 PM 2/1/99 +1100, you wrote:
>> /^From
> (egcs(-|-testresults-|-announce-)return-[0-9]+-cat\=zip\.com\.au\@egcs\.cygn
> us\.com|owner-egcs-bugs\@cygnus\.com)/

> Oh my God that regular expression gives me a migraine just looking at it!

:-)

> I have Eudora -- it allows substring matching in headers but nothing this
> complex. :P Also, the EGCS mail I receive always has From: of the original
> sender, never egcs or egcs-testresults or whatever.

It matches the `From egcs...' line, not `From: ...'.  That is the
first line in a Unix mailbox message, and the information in there is
extracted from the SMTP envelope.

-- 
Alexandre Oliva  http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~oliva  aoliva@{acm.org}
oliva@{dcc.unicamp.br,gnu.org,egcs.cygnus.com,samba.org}
Universidade Estadual de Campinas, SP, Brasil

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Ken Raeburn]

Paul Derbyshire <pderbysh@usa.net> writes:

> Trouble is, it seems you can post to the list using just "egcs@cygnus.com",

It's not unheard of for a site to have a local alias that points to a
remote mailing list, especially if, say, a news/mail gateway is
situated at that machine (so that "posts" may automatically be routed
by email to that machine, where some spam filter might be installed),
or the machine used to host the list before it moved (so that people
may have the old address saved away somewhere, and old versions of the
software may refer to it in documentation).  The latter is the case
here.

Getting annoyed at such sites isn't going to do you much good.  Find
some way to match on the alternate addresses; they're usually few in
number.

Me, I look for something like

    egcs@[-a-zA-Z0-9.]*cygnus.com

in the to or cc lines.  (The long list of characters is to avoid
matching whitespace and thus span multiple addresses.)  But I see the
incoming mail headers (at my site) currently also have:

    Mailing-List: contact egcs-help@egcs.cygnus.com; run by ezmlm
    Sender: owner-egcs@egcs.cygnus.com
    Delivered-To: mailing list egcs@egcs.cygnus.com

that you could look for.

And the envelope-sender address (also known as a "From " header --
that's "from" with a trailing space and *NO* colon -- in the
UNIX/sendmail world) also indicates that it's from the egcs list, but
I don't know if your mailer will make that info available to you.

Ken

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[CaT]

Paul Derbyshire wrote the following:
>
> At 05:13 PM 2/1/99 +1100, you wrote:
> >/^From
> (egcs(-|-testresults-|-announce-)return-[0-9]+-cat\=zip\.com\.au\@egcs\.cygn
> us\.com|owner-egcs-bugs\@cygnus\.com)/
>
> Oh my God that regular expression gives me a migraine just looking at it!

The joy of Perl. I could make it simpler but I like to keep it as specific
as possible. :)

> I have Eudora -- it allows substring matching in headers but nothing this
> complex. :P Also, the EGCS mail I receive always has From: of the original
> sender, never egcs or egcs-testresults or whatever. Are you subscribed
> differently? How can I get the mail to arrive with the From: containing
> 'egcs' for a simple substring match?

That's not a From: header but a From_ (where the _ means space) header. It's
used to seperate msg in a UNIX mailbox. Don't know if it's there in Eudora
though.

-- 
CaT (cat@zip.net.au)                       URL: http://www.zip.com.au/dev/null

    There was farting in the air that night,
        It lit so bright,
            Fernando...

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

At 05:13 PM 2/1/99 +1100, you wrote:
>/^From
(egcs(-|-testresults-|-announce-)return-[0-9]+-cat\=zip\.com\.au\@egcs\.cygn
us\.com|owner-egcs-bugs\@cygnus\.com)/

Oh my God that regular expression gives me a migraine just looking at it!

I have Eudora -- it allows substring matching in headers but nothing this
complex. :P Also, the EGCS mail I receive always has From: of the original
sender, never egcs or egcs-testresults or whatever. Are you subscribed
differently? How can I get the mail to arrive with the From: containing
'egcs' for a simple substring match?


-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

>Pardon the 'me too!', but I've found this regexp (from .procmailrc)
>to work rather well:
>
>	^Sender:.*owner-egcs

Mine doesn't come with a Sender: header...there's an X-Sender: header but
it's the message originator again and not owner-egcs.
-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Bob McWhirter]

> > Trouble is, it seems you can post to the list using just "egcs@cygnus.com",
> > since I keep finding a shitload of egcs mail in my main Inbox with this on
> > the Cc: line!
> 
> I filter on the From_ line like this:
> 
> /^From (egcs(-|-testresults-|-announce-)return-[0-9]+-cat\=zip\.com\.au\@egcs\.cygnus\.com|owner-egcs-bugs\@cygnus\.com)/

Pardon the 'me too!', but I've found this regexp (from .procmailrc)
to work rather well:

	^Sender:.*owner-egcs


It's short, and seems to work regardless of the address used to 
send to the list itself.

-Bob

Re: [Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[CaT]

Paul Derbyshire wrote the following:
> 
> Grr. I subscribe to the EGCS mailing list at egcs.cygnus.com and set a mail
> filter to filter anything with a To: or Cc: containing
> "egcs@egcs.cygnus.com" into an 'egcs' folder, figuring that it isn't likely
> that anyone would BCc: to the list and confound the filter.
> 
> Trouble is, it seems you can post to the list using just "egcs@cygnus.com",
> since I keep finding a shitload of egcs mail in my main Inbox with this on
> the Cc: line!

I filter on the From_ line like this:

/^From (egcs(-|-testresults-|-announce-)return-[0-9]+-cat\=zip\.com\.au\@egcs\.cygnus\.com|owner-egcs-bugs\@cygnus\.com)/

That catches all the egcs mail for me just fine (it's from a list perl script
I've written to postprocess my mailbox. don't ask why. :).

-- 
CaT (cat@zip.net.au)                       URL: http://www.zip.com.au/dev/null

    There was farting in the air that night,
        It lit so bright,
            Fernando...

[Meta] Enough of the "egcs.cygnus.com" already!

[Paul Derbyshire]

Grr. I subscribe to the EGCS mailing list at egcs.cygnus.com and set a mail
filter to filter anything with a To: or Cc: containing
"egcs@egcs.cygnus.com" into an 'egcs' folder, figuring that it isn't likely
that anyone would BCc: to the list and confound the filter.

Trouble is, it seems you can post to the list using just "egcs@cygnus.com",
since I keep finding a shitload of egcs mail in my main Inbox with this on
the Cc: line!

Argh.
-- 
   .*.  "Clouds are not spheres, mountains are not cones, coastlines are not
-()  <  circles, and bark is not smooth, nor does lightning travel in a
   `*'  straight line."    -------------------------------------------------
        -- B. Mandelbrot  | http://surf.to/pgd.net
_____________________ ____|________     Paul Derbyshire     pderbysh@usa.net
Programmer & Humanist|ICQ: 10423848|