From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 69091 invoked by alias); 21 Mar 2015 19:59:57 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gdb-patches-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: gdb-patches-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 69071 invoked by uid 89); 21 Mar 2015 19:59:57 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_PASS,T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-Spam-User: qpsmtpd, 2 recipients X-HELO: smtp.gentoo.org Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (HELO smtp.gentoo.org) (140.211.166.183) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.93/v0.84-503-g423c35a) with (AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted) ESMTPS; Sat, 21 Mar 2015 19:59:55 +0000 Received: from vapier (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 582BE340A14; Sat, 21 Mar 2015 19:59:53 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 19:59:00 -0000 From: Mike Frysinger To: Doug Evans Cc: Joel Brobecker , Binutils , gdb-patches Subject: Re: [PATCH] update automake version to 1.11.6 Message-ID: <20150321195953.GA24181@vapier> Mail-Followup-To: Doug Evans , Joel Brobecker , Binutils , gdb-patches References: <20150311094134.GE9455@vapier> <1426310999-13103-1-git-send-email-vapier@gentoo.org> <20150319120631.GB4884@adacore.com> <20150319230427.GI4128@vapier> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-IsSubscribed: yes X-SW-Source: 2015-03/txt/msg00692.txt.bz2 --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-length: 3997 On 20 Mar 2015 16:58, Doug Evans wrote: > On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote: > > On 19 Mar 2015 15:59, Doug Evans wrote: > >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Joel Brobecker wrote: > >> >> Debian stable (wheezy) and newer only have 1.11.6. > >> >> Ubuntu Trusty and newer only have 1.11.6. > >> >> Gentoo dropped <=3D1.11.5 2 years ago. > >> >> Fedora R17 was the last one to offer 1.11.x (it was 1.11.6). > >> >> Centos 7 doesn't offer any 1.11.x version. > >> >> OpenSUSE 12.2 was the last one to offer 1.11.x. > >> >> Arch Linux dropped 1.11.x 3 years ago. > >> >> Mageia 2 was the last one to offer 1.11.x. > >> >> > >> >> So anyone who readily has access to automake 1.11.[0-5] is using a = two > >> >> year old distro that is no longer supported. Lets use 1.11.6 as it= 's > >> >> the only 1.11.x version that is easily available. > >> >> > >> >> 2015-03-14 Mike Frysinger > >> >> > >> >> * README-maintainer-mode: Update automake to 1.11.6. > >> > > >> > FWIW, I tend to avoid using the auto-tools already installed, because > >> > I don't know what patches they might contain. Those patches can resu= lt > >> > in small differences which inexplicably show up when you regenerate > >> > some files after making some modifications. That's why I rebuilt > >> > them all from source, and use them when regenerating files. > >> > > >> > All in all, I'm not against switching to 1.11.6 but we should then > >> > regenerate all affected files now, and I would prefer it if that was > >> > done using an unmodified release rather than one that might have been > >> > modified by the distro. > >> > >> +1 on avoiding distro releases. > > > > if we follow this logic, why aren't autotools part of the repo, either = directly > > (like readline) or indirectly (git submodules) ? requiring every devel= oper to > > independently correctly download&build&install a custom version of auto= tools in > > their system is, frankly, unreasonable. > > > > in Gentoo i've made it dirt simple for people -- older versions of auto= conf are > > available to emerge in parallel and you can select via `autoconf-2.64` = or by > > exporting WANT_AUTOCONF=3D2.64. but i don't think making Gentoo a requ= irement > > would be approved :D. >=20 > IIRC, There used to be copies of at least one of autoconf/automake on > sourceware because there were local patches we needed. They were > eventually deleted because there was no longer a need for them, and > when we upgrade to a new version it's easier to just get the release > from ftp.gnu.org (or wherever). >=20 > It's happened before that distro releases of autoconf/automake > contained local mods that generated noisy diffs. A distro > autoconf-2.64 is not necessarily a real autoconf-2.64 (no local mods). i'm aware of what distros can do -- i'm the maintainer of these packages in= =20 Gentoo, and i have included upstream fixes before. and i've seen older ver= sions=20 include patches that were ... questionable. > Requiring everyone to use the same version in order to avoid noisy > changes is desirable, and requiring people to download/install pure > FSF copies doesn't really seem that onerous. i don't have a problem with requiring people to use the same exact version. i do think that requiring them to build/install by hand is unreasonable. it's pretty rare (by design) for projects to do this sort of thing (commit the generated autotools), so it's pretty rare for this to be an issue, so it's pretty rare for people to be required to manage this. it's a throw back to pre-distro days when people were used to building/install software themselves, and it's unnecessary friction for new people to get into the=20 development process today. death by a thousand cuts and all that. while i would like to see the autotools not be checked in in the first plac= e,=20 i'm not advocating for that here. if we're going to make this a barrier for entry, then why don't we make it a non-issue ? -mike --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-length: 819 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVDc25AAoJEEFjO5/oN/WBrgQQAItWcKUCEInxYb/O/q4PutZR qYSPadg4oXBsGoRiNE+s45pVH6PeQ+BDUPaTeJ9Kvxr2ALlCPtnZN/6qx3XDkr47 OXIIR9GYSOv0SKJIN722dwnX0lzsqtGaOojbP22MLssDf9wgVTwbf16FS9qKAAZF K6kLsIc4No9t0c1gWeohWpF8cN88zq143k9iKEmEvPhYfAHlQoO83Dwko7RQtIQ6 8Jbsp94CpPbKMwTxUAhxB8pFu1ydKlW/1qS3rNlF/bbozU5yATqgu4zh25cGUU6N F5QiOi/sJOQYo2NZx9gSGwePYhZnwbyPGSvl99VcO/BEHhHKuNAd7HdJ7sMYOG5J t8c1CA/dvFYfXU9Q7YD1lQKLERS7LvumwOjowxgGJOjIaff5B2sm9WxlmEzoCtdg DUFDLHBXBeFx5qjHvuzNqnjxG9PKSzZgCkiqe1I1cHDaRzFx+B8i3hbLrpp+1Gcv aCdM3CLLcLTBBB4nNYRwIZO3ccYJJJSUO8uk39rFZEJ1mWcpM44WsoP/D+36VSPz CfI/iOeYSv8eOM0cQcsmALDpNOA1Vf4/1yCEUc2Y7JrQQ7Lb4s4kcSV+nbYoIRV4 oze3o080u/srsBzHf76L32gRHm0e8MMXejmI+P2GTTZKt4bOttgC5VPpXqvWbNI7 Dnebvv2K6messKNtxjrV =iXiX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --3V7upXqbjpZ4EhLz--