Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] GDB 8.1 released!

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] GDB 8.1 released!

[Pedro Alves]

Hi all,

Congrats everyone!  This is a really great release.
I'm excited by a lot of things in here.  Lots of usability
improvements, optimizations and new features, etc.  There's
something for everybody.

And I'm also excited by the things already starting to cook
up for the next release too!

Thanks Joel for handling the release, as usual.

On 01/31/2018 04:30 AM, Joel Brobecker wrote:

> Release 8.1 of GDB, the GNU Debugger, is now available via anonymous
> FTP.  GDB is a source-level debugger for Ada, C, C++, Objective-C,
> Pascal and many other languages.  GDB can target (i.e., debug programs
> running on) more than a dozen different processor architectures, and GDB
> itself can run on most popular GNU/Linux, Unix and Microsoft Windows
> variants.

While we're on to spring cleaning the announcements, Pascal and Objective-C
support hasn't really seen much (any?) development in a while, and I'm
not really sure they're really that much used.  I'd consider mentioning
instead (or in addition) other more active languages, like Rust, maybe
Fortran and Go, for example.

Thanks,
Pedro Alves

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] GDB 8.1 released!

[Joel Brobecker]

> Thanks Joel for handling the release, as usual.

My pleasure :). It's really you guys who take care of getting the code
ready for release, so well done!

> On 01/31/2018 04:30 AM, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> 
> > Release 8.1 of GDB, the GNU Debugger, is now available via anonymous
> > FTP.  GDB is a source-level debugger for Ada, C, C++, Objective-C,
> > Pascal and many other languages.  GDB can target (i.e., debug programs
> > running on) more than a dozen different processor architectures, and GDB
> > itself can run on most popular GNU/Linux, Unix and Microsoft Windows
> > variants.
> 
> While we're on to spring cleaning the announcements, Pascal and Objective-C
> support hasn't really seen much (any?) development in a while, and I'm
> not really sure they're really that much used.  I'd consider mentioning
> instead (or in addition) other more active languages, like Rust, maybe
> Fortran and Go, for example.

Sounds like a good idea: We should indeed add those three languages.
Not sure about removing the others or not, but I would lean towards
removing them, just to keep the list short. Also, it keeps the focus
on the languages we know are still actively supported, and therefore
having a better chance of working well.

Another option is to remove the list entirely in the introduction
paragraph, and either leave it to the user to find this information
elsewhere or provide that information further down the document
(I can't really think of a good place though). Howzabout we put
that list on the GDB's main web page? Currently, it says:

| What is GDB?
| ------------
|
| GDB, the GNU Project debugger, allows you to see what is going on
| `inside' another program while it executes -- or what another program
| was doing at the moment it crashed.
|
| GDB can do four main kinds of things (plus other things in support of
| these) to help you catch bugs in the act:
|
|  * Start your program, specifying anything that might affect its behavior.
|  * Make your program stop on specified conditions.
|  * Examine what has happened, when your program has stopped.
|  * Change things in your program, so you can experiment with correcting
|    the effects of one bug and go on to learn about another.
|
| The program being debugged can be written in Ada, C, C++, Objective-C,
| Pascal (and many other languages). Those programs might be executing on
| the same machine as GDB (native) or on another machine (remote). GDB can
| run on most popular UNIX and Microsoft Windows variants.

We could even split the languages section off from the last paragraph
into its own section, vis:

| What is GDB?
| ------------
|
| GDB, the GNU Project debugger, allows you to see what is going on
| `inside' another program while it executes -- or what another program
| was doing at the moment it crashed.
|
| GDB can do four main kinds of things (plus other things in support of
| these) to help you catch bugs in the act:
|
|  * Start your program, specifying anything that might affect its behavior.
|  * Make your program stop on specified conditions.
|  * Examine what has happened, when your program has stopped.
|  * Change things in your program, so you can experiment with correcting
|    the effects of one bug and go on to learn about another.
|
| Those programs might be executing on the same machine as GDB (native)
| or on another machine (remote). GDB can run on most popular UNIX and
| Microsoft Windows variants.
|
| What Languages does GDB Support?
| --------------------------------
|
| GDB supports the following languages (in alphabetical order):
|  * Ada
|  * Assembly
|  * C
|  * C++
|  * D
|  * Fortran
|  * Go
|  * Objective-C
|  * OpenCL
|  * Modula-2
|  * Pascal
|  * Rust

As explained above, I fear that having this exhuastive list might
attract attention to regions of GDB that might have bitrotted a bit.

-- 
Joel

Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] GDB 8.1 released!

[Pedro Alves]

On 02/02/2018 03:40 PM, Joel Brobecker wrote:

> We could even split the languages section off from the last paragraph
> into its own section, vis:
> 
> | What is GDB?
> | ------------
> |
> | GDB, the GNU Project debugger, allows you to see what is going on
> | `inside' another program while it executes -- or what another program
> | was doing at the moment it crashed.
> |
> | GDB can do four main kinds of things (plus other things in support of
> | these) to help you catch bugs in the act:
> |
> |  * Start your program, specifying anything that might affect its behavior.
> |  * Make your program stop on specified conditions.
> |  * Examine what has happened, when your program has stopped.
> |  * Change things in your program, so you can experiment with correcting
> |    the effects of one bug and go on to learn about another.
> |
> | Those programs might be executing on the same machine as GDB (native)
> | or on another machine (remote).

Maybe add "or on a simulator".

> GDB can run on most popular UNIX and | Microsoft Windows variants.

Maybe add macOS here.

> |
> | What Languages does GDB Support?
> | --------------------------------
> |
> | GDB supports the following languages (in alphabetical order):
> |  * Ada
> |  * Assembly
> |  * C
> |  * C++
> |  * D
> |  * Fortran
> |  * Go
> |  * Objective-C
> |  * OpenCL
> |  * Modula-2
> |  * Pascal
> |  * Rust
> 

Sounds good to me.

Yeah.  I don't have a strong opinion there though I lean on listing
all as it avoids singling out anyone/any project and coming up with
some kind of metric to decide which ones are important.  Since it's
a graphically separated list with some markup, not some
paragraph-contributing-to-the-size-of-a-hard-to-read-wall-of-text, those
who don't care about the list can just quickly and easily move their
eyes past it in a split second.  I.e., I don't think 10 vs 20 entries
makes a difference in terms of readability.

> As explained above, I fear that having this exhuastive list might
> attract attention to regions of GDB that might have bitrotted a bit.
I think not listing active languages is worse than also listing
bitrotted languages, so I think on balance it's still better.

Thanks,
Pedro Alves

[pushed] GDB WWW main page adjustements (was: "Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT] GDB 8.1 released!")

[Joel Brobecker]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 904 bytes --]

> > | Those programs might be executing on the same machine as GDB (native)
> > | or on another machine (remote).
> 
> Maybe add "or on a simulator".
> 
> > GDB can run on most popular UNIX and | Microsoft Windows variants.
> 
> Maybe add macOS here.
> 
> > |
> > | What Languages does GDB Support?
> > | --------------------------------
> > |
> > | GDB supports the following languages (in alphabetical order):
> > |  * Ada
> > |  * Assembly
> > |  * C
> > |  * C++
> > |  * D
> > |  * Fortran
> > |  * Go
> > |  * Objective-C
> > |  * OpenCL
> > |  * Modula-2
> > |  * Pascal
> > |  * Rust
> > 
> 
> Sounds good to me.
[...]
> I think not listing active languages is worse than also listing
> bitrotted languages, so I think on balance it's still better.

Makes better sense indeed.

Attached are the 3 patches I applied to take care of the above,
which is now live.

Thanks for the feedback!
-- 
Joel

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From 229159ed6c7af0280ebb9365676b565bb989a4e8 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 08:13:44 +0400
Subject: [PATCH 1/3] main page: provide exhaustive list of supported languages
 in its own section

Rather than provide a sublist of supported languages in the "What is
GDB?" section, with the languages being chosen somewhat abitrarily,
move that information to its own new section right after it, and list
all supported languages.
---
 index.html | 27 ++++++++++++++++++++++-----
 1 file changed, 22 insertions(+), 5 deletions(-)

diff --git a/index.html b/index.html
index 1ac39f0..4dcba5d 100644
--- a/index.html
+++ b/index.html
@@ -65,10 +65,27 @@ of these) to help you catch bugs in the act:
 correcting the effects of one bug and go on to learn about another.
 </ul>
 
-The program being debugged can be written in Ada, C, C++, Objective-C,
-Pascal (and many other languages).  Those programs might be executing
-on the same machine as GDB (native) or on another machine (remote).  GDB
-can run on most popular UNIX and Microsoft Windows variants.<p>
+Those programs might be executing on the same machine as GDB (native)
+or on another machine (remote).  GDB can run on most popular UNIX and
+Microsoft Windows variants.<p>
+
+<h3>What Languages does GDB Support?</h3>
+
+GDB supports the following languages (in alphabetical order):
+<ul>
+  <li> Ada</li>
+  <li> Assembly</li>
+  <li> C</li>
+  <li> C++</li>
+  <li> D</li>
+  <li> Fortran</li>
+  <li> Go</li>
+  <li> Objective-C</li>
+  <li> OpenCL</li>
+  <li> Modula-2</li>
+  <li> Pascal</li>
+  <li> Rust</li>
+</ul>
 
 <h3>GDB version 8.1</h3>
 
@@ -262,7 +279,7 @@ Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301 USA.</p>
 <p>Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article is
 permitted in any medium, provided this notice is preserved.</p>
 
-<p>Last modified 2018-01-31.</p>
+<p>Last modified 2018-02-09.</p>
 </address>
 
 </body>
-- 
2.11.0


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From 6e1ac8c391c3ebc4526052e7a4d539bce03783ca Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 08:18:14 +0400
Subject: [PATCH 2/3] main page: document that GDB runs on Mac OS X also.

---
 index.html | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/index.html b/index.html
index 4dcba5d..4a01247 100644
--- a/index.html
+++ b/index.html
@@ -67,7 +67,7 @@ correcting the effects of one bug and go on to learn about another.
 
 Those programs might be executing on the same machine as GDB (native)
 or on another machine (remote).  GDB can run on most popular UNIX and
-Microsoft Windows variants.<p>
+Microsoft Windows variants, as well as on Mac OS X.<p>
 
 <h3>What Languages does GDB Support?</h3>
 
-- 
2.11.0


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From 67c0ef49dc7354db981eb90849b2e100cb5bc0c2 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 08:21:46 +0400
Subject: [PATCH 3/3] main page: Document the fact that GDB can debug programs
 running on a sim

---
 index.html | 6 +++---
 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

diff --git a/index.html b/index.html
index 4a01247..db4985b 100644
--- a/index.html
+++ b/index.html
@@ -65,9 +65,9 @@ of these) to help you catch bugs in the act:
 correcting the effects of one bug and go on to learn about another.
 </ul>
 
-Those programs might be executing on the same machine as GDB (native)
-or on another machine (remote).  GDB can run on most popular UNIX and
-Microsoft Windows variants, as well as on Mac OS X.<p>
+Those programs might be executing on the same machine as GDB (native),
+on another machine (remote), or a on simulator.  GDB can run on most
+popular UNIX and Microsoft Windows variants, as well as on Mac OS X.<p>
 
 <h3>What Languages does GDB Support?</h3>
 
-- 
2.11.0

Re: [pushed] GDB WWW main page adjustements

[Pedro Alves]

On 02/09/2018 04:24 AM, Joel Brobecker wrote:

> Attached are the 3 patches I applied to take care of the above,
> which is now live.

Thanks!

I spotted a typo: "or a on simulator" -> "or on a simulator".

Thanks,
Pedro Alves

Re: [pushed] GDB WWW main page adjustements

[Joel Brobecker]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 237 bytes --]

> > Attached are the 3 patches I applied to take care of the above,
> > which is now live.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> I spotted a typo: "or a on simulator" -> "or on a simulator".

Ah, yes; thanks! Fix thusly with the attached patch...

-- 
Joel

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From 97e21d159cf8c0e474afc74da773d492b7b7d398 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2018 17:18:41 +0400
Subject: [PATCH] fix typo in main page (a on simulator -> on a simulator)

---
 index.html | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/index.html b/index.html
index db4985b..8888b32 100644
--- a/index.html
+++ b/index.html
@@ -66,7 +66,7 @@ correcting the effects of one bug and go on to learn about another.
 </ul>
 
 Those programs might be executing on the same machine as GDB (native),
-on another machine (remote), or a on simulator.  GDB can run on most
+on another machine (remote), or on a simulator.  GDB can run on most
 popular UNIX and Microsoft Windows variants, as well as on Mac OS X.<p>
 
 <h3>What Languages does GDB Support?</h3>
-- 
2.11.0