From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from outbound-ss-761.bluehost.com (outbound-ss-761.bluehost.com [74.220.211.250]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B75F3858D32 for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2023 02:26:17 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org 9B75F3858D32 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=tromey.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=tromey.com Received: from cmgw12.mail.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.0.90.127]) by progateway8.mail.pro1.eigbox.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C6C10046D4B for ; Sat, 11 Feb 2023 02:26:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from box5379.bluehost.com ([162.241.216.53]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id QfaipPybSVjzQQfaipaZvF; Sat, 11 Feb 2023 02:26:16 +0000 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=bt2JuGWi c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=63e6fcc8 a=ApxJNpeYhEAb1aAlGBBbmA==:117 a=ApxJNpeYhEAb1aAlGBBbmA==:17 a=dLZJa+xiwSxG16/P+YVxDGlgEgI=:19 a=m04uMKEZRckA:10:nop_rcvd_month_year a=Qbun_eYptAEA:10:endurance_base64_authed_username_1 a=mJpyJJW6_J_PTbFkM3AA:9 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tromey.com; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References :Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=3yBIbjRUnvp4uWmQ2j2P6IqpvLKpLuuznLkEI0EINUU=; b=hCKqxXzxC/XdvGO/3yalSIcFdG 0isz3t+N3eH3gYJlKOxPoPt75fRDWH2bfMOgiWqQlN6I+n6n2kGEW1MxfQfhaP3r7lI2Yo34tOBw/ FE6e1x3hqWUOtORsp7YReJ710; Received: from [69.2.159.9] (port=42899 helo=prentzel) by box5379.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1pQfai-000H41-Mf; Fri, 10 Feb 2023 19:26:16 -0700 From: Tom Tromey To: Eli Zaretskii via Gdb-patches Cc: Mark Wielaard , Eli Zaretskii , tom@tromey.com Subject: Re: [RFC] Deprecate stabs References: <20230119174156.654402-1-tom@tromey.com> <83r0vqo15g.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1pxmi7b.fsf@gnu.org> X-Attribution: Tom Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2023 19:26:12 -0700 In-Reply-To: <83y1pxmi7b.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii via Gdb-patches's message of "Fri, 20 Jan 2023 15:47:04 +0200") Message-ID: <87a61lgcor.fsf@tromey.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box5379.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - sourceware.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tromey.com X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 69.2.159.9 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1pQfai-000H41-Mf X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: (prentzel) [69.2.159.9]:42899 X-Source-Auth: tom+tromey.com X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: ZWx5bnJvYmk7ZWx5bnJvYmk7Ym94NTM3OS5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3020.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,JMQ_SPF_NEUTRAL,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: >> stabs support was deprecated in GCC 12 [1] and has been removed in GCC >> 13 [2], which is in pre-release state (stage 4) now. So the above plan >> actually trails GCC by two releases. So I would actually recommend >> adding a deprecation notice in GDB 13 and removal in GDB 14. Eli> I see no reason to rush with removal of features. Someone could still Eli> be using them. And users don't necessarily upgrade to the latest Eli> version of GCC as soon as it is released, they could go on using an Eli> older version for some years. Eli> We should be friendlier to our users than MS and Google. I agree with all these principles, but they don't really apply to stabs. Stabs have been obsolete since before I began working on gdb. When I worked at Red Hat, we'd occasionally stumble over some program using them -- and this always turned out to be by mistake. That is, just user ignorance, perhaps they read some web page from 1988 saying use -gstabs. Similarly, when replying to bugs in bugzilla, more than once some crash has turned out to be due to stabs being in use. I just tell those people sorry, nobody works on stabs or even really understands the stabs format or reader any more. s/-gstabs/-g/ usually fixes the problems. If there is some person who really does use stabs, I don't think they'll really be harmed by having to use GDB 13. Finally, deprecation serves the purpose of announcing our intent. Maybe someone will step up to maintain this code, in which case we can keep it. In this scenario, I would be ok with treating it like the un-maintained *-nat code -- we'll try to keep it building but testing and fixing it is up to the maintainer. If/when this goes in, I'll send a deprecation announcement to the gdb list, in case there is some such person who can be flushed out of the cobwebs. thanks, Tom