GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64

GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64

[Joel Brobecker]

Dear all,

The GDB project is planning on removing support for the following
platforms:
  - MIPS IRIX (mips*-sgi-irix5*, mips*-sgi-irix6*)
  - Alpha Tru64 (alpha*-*-osf*)

As of GDB 7.8, our latest release, we hope that GDB will build and work.
But we currently have no report of anyone who has tried it, so we do not
know for sure.

If you are still using a recent GDB on either of these platforms,
and would like to step up to continue maintaining either of them,
please let us know. We have been maintaining them as best we can
up to now, but we have reached a point where this is becoming
too difficult and/or more effort that anyone is willing to invest.

If you are interested in maintaining either port, please contact
us immediately, even if you are not sure. Our process for removing
a platform is fairly fast by internet standards: If no one steps up,
we will send this notice to gdb-announce a week from now. And then
declare the removal a week after that.

Thank you,
-- 
Joel

Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64

[Joel Sherrill]

First I am not complaining but just have a couple of clarifying questions.

+ does this include binutils and/or GCC?
+ does this have the side-effect of impacting any embedded mips targets? I expect not.

Thanks.

--joel

On September 11, 2014 2:52:49 PM EDT, Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com> wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>The GDB project is planning on removing support for the following
>platforms:
>  - MIPS IRIX (mips*-sgi-irix5*, mips*-sgi-irix6*)
>  - Alpha Tru64 (alpha*-*-osf*)
>
>As of GDB 7.8, our latest release, we hope that GDB will build and
>work.
>But we currently have no report of anyone who has tried it, so we do
>not
>know for sure.
>
>If you are still using a recent GDB on either of these platforms,
>and would like to step up to continue maintaining either of them,
>please let us know. We have been maintaining them as best we can
>up to now, but we have reached a point where this is becoming
>too difficult and/or more effort that anyone is willing to invest.
>
>If you are interested in maintaining either port, please contact
>us immediately, even if you are not sure. Our process for removing
>a platform is fairly fast by internet standards: If no one steps up,
>we will send this notice to gdb-announce a week from now. And then
>declare the removal a week after that.
>
>Thank you,

Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64

[Joel Brobecker]

> First I am not complaining but just have a couple of clarifying questions.
> 
> + does this include binutils and/or GCC?

No, this only is about the GDB part of the code.

> + does this have the side-effect of impacting any embedded mips
> targets? I expect not.

No. For MIPS, this should only affect native IRIX support.

-- 
Joel

Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64

[Andrew Pinski]

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com> wrote:
>> First I am not complaining but just have a couple of clarifying questions.
>>
>> + does this include binutils and/or GCC?
>
> No, this only is about the GDB part of the code.

GCC support for IRIX was already removed a few years ago.

Thanks,
Andrew

>
>> + does this have the side-effect of impacting any embedded mips
>> targets? I expect not.
>
> No. For MIPS, this should only affect native IRIX support.
>
> --
> Joel

Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64

[Joel Sherrill]

Thanks for the quick responses. Sounds like the final cruft to remove.

--joel

On September 11, 2014 8:32:54 PM EDT, Andrew Pinski <pinskia@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
>wrote:
>>> First I am not complaining but just have a couple of clarifying
>questions.
>>>
>>> + does this include binutils and/or GCC?
>>
>> No, this only is about the GDB part of the code.
>
>GCC support for IRIX was already removed a few years ago.
>
>Thanks,
>Andrew
>
>>
>>> + does this have the side-effect of impacting any embedded mips
>>> targets? I expect not.
>>
>> No. For MIPS, this should only affect native IRIX support.
>>
>> --
>> Joel

RE: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64

[Matthew Fortune]

FWIW just last week I commented in a binutils patch about wanting to
get rid of the irix configurations there. Given it is close to a binutils
release I guess we can bring the topic up formally on binutils after 2.25.

Matthew

Joel Sherrill <joel.sherrill@oarcorp.com> writes:
> Thanks for the quick responses. Sounds like the final cruft to remove.
> 
> --joel
> 
> On September 11, 2014 8:32:54 PM EDT, Andrew Pinski <pinskia@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
> >wrote:
> >>> First I am not complaining but just have a couple of clarifying
> >questions.
> >>>
> >>> + does this include binutils and/or GCC?
> >>
> >> No, this only is about the GDB part of the code.
> >
> >GCC support for IRIX was already removed a few years ago.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Andrew
> >
> >>
> >>> + does this have the side-effect of impacting any embedded mips
> >>> targets? I expect not.
> >>
> >> No. For MIPS, this should only affect native IRIX support.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Joel

VAX Ultrix? (Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64)

[Pedro Alves]

On 09/11/2014 07:52 PM, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> The GDB project is planning on removing support for the following
> platforms:
...
>   - Alpha Tru64 (alpha*-*-osf*)

Going over the supported hosts in configure.host, I noticed we still
"support" VAX Ultrix / 4.2BSD:

 vax-*-bsd*)             gdb_host=vax ;;
 vax-*-ultrix*)          gdb_host=vax ;;

Does it make sense to keep support for old Ultrix given we're
dropping OSF/1 / Tru64?

Below's the table I was building, listing the full set of
supported hosts, according to configure.host, mapping OS to triplet.

| 4.2BSD            | vax-*-bsd*                    |
| AIX               | powerpc-*-aix*                |
| AIX               | powerpc64-*-aix*              |
| AIX               | rs6000-*-*                    |
| Cygwin            | i[34567]86-*-cygwin*          |
| Cygwin            | x86_64-*-cygwin*              |
| DJGPP/go32        | i[34567]86-*-go32*            |
| DJGPP/go32        | i[34567]86-*-msdosdjgpp*      |
| Darwin / Mac OS X | *-*-darwin*                   |
| FreeBSD           | alpha*-*-freebsd*             |
| FreeBSD           | i[34567]86-*-freebsd*         |
| FreeBSD           | powerpc*-*-freebsd*           |
| FreeBSD           | sparc64-*-freebsd*            |
| FreeBSD           | x86_64-*-freebsd*             |
| GNU/Hurd          | i[34567]86-*-gnu*             |
| GNU/Linux         | aarch64*-*-linux*             |
| GNU/Linux         | alpha*-*-linux*               |
| GNU/Linux         | arm*-*-linux*                 |
| GNU/Linux         | hppa*-*-linux*                |
| GNU/Linux         | i[34567]86-*-linux*           |
| GNU/Linux         | ia64-*-linux*                 |
| GNU/Linux         | m32r*-*-linux*                |
| GNU/Linux         | m68*-*-linux*                 |
| GNU/Linux         | mips*-*-linux*                |
| GNU/Linux         | powerpc*-*-linux*             |
| GNU/Linux         | powerpc64*-*-linux*           |
| GNU/Linux         | s390*-*-linux*                |
| GNU/Linux         | sparc-*-linux*                |
| GNU/Linux         | sparc64-*-linux*              |
| GNU/Linux         | tilegx-*-linux*               |
| GNU/Linux         | x86_64-*-linux*               |
| GNU/Linux         | xtensa*-*-linux*              |
| GNU/kFreeBSD      | alpha*-*-kfreebsd*-gnu        |
| GNU/kFreeBSD      | i[34567]86-*-kfreebsd*-gnu    |
| GNU/kFreeBSD      | sparc64-*-kfreebsd*-gnu       |
| GNU/kFreeBSD      | x86_64-*-kfreebsd*-gnu        |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | alpha*-*-knetbsd*-gnu         |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | arm*-*-knetbsd*-gnu           |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | i[34567]86-*-knetbsd*-gnu     |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | m68*-*-knetbsd*-gnu           |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | mips*-*-knetbsd*-gnu          |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | powerpc-*-knetbsd*-gnu        |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | sh*-*-knetbsd*-gnu            |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | sparc-*-knetbsd*-gnu          |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | sparc64-*-knetbsd*-gnu        |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | vax-*-knetbsd*-gnu            |
| GNU/kNetBSD       | x86_64-*-knetbsd*-gnu         |
| HP-UX             | hppa*-*-hpux*                 |
| HP-UX             | ia64-*-hpux*                  |
| MinGW / MinGW-w64 | i[34567]86-*-mingw32*         |
| MinGW / MinGW-w64 | x86_64-*-mingw*               |
| NetBSD            | alpha*-*-netbsd*              |
| NetBSD            | arm*-*-netbsdelf*             |
| NetBSD            | hppa*-*-netbsd*               |
| NetBSD            | i[34567]86-*-netbsdelf*       |
| NetBSD            | m68*-*-netbsdelf*             |
| NetBSD            | mips*-*-netbsd*               |
| NetBSD            | powerpc-*-netbsd*             |
| NetBSD            | sh*-*-netbsdelf*              |
| NetBSD            | sparc-*-netbsdelf*            |
| NetBSD            | sparc64-*-netbsd*             |
| NetBSD            | vax-*-netbsdelf*              |
| NetBSD            | x86_64-*-netbsd*              |
| OpenBSD           | alpha*-*-openbsd*             |
| OpenBSD           | arm*-*-openbsd*               |
| OpenBSD           | hppa*-*-openbsd*              |
| OpenBSD           | i[34567]86-*-openbsd*         |
| OpenBSD           | m68*-*-openbsd*               |
| OpenBSD           | m88*-*-openbsd*               |
| OpenBSD           | mips64*-*-openbsd*            |
| OpenBSD           | powerpc-*-openbsd*            |
| OpenBSD           | sh*-*-openbsd*                |
| OpenBSD           | sparc-*-openbsd*              |
| OpenBSD           | sparc64-*-openbsd*            |
| OpenBSD           | vax-*-openbsd*                |
| OpenBSD           | x86_64-*-openbsd*             |
| QNX/NTO           | i[3456]86-*-nto*              |
| Solaris           | i[34567]86-*-solaris*         |
| Solaris           | i[34567]86-*-solaris2.1[0-9]* |
| Solaris           | sparc-*-solaris2*             |
| Solaris           | sparc64-*-solaris2*           |
| Solaris           | sparcv9-*-solaris2*           |
| Solaris           | x86_64-*-solaris2.1[0-9]*     |
| Ultrix            | vax-*-ultrix*                 |

Thanks,
Pedro Alves

Re: VAX Ultrix? (Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64)

[Joel Brobecker]

> Going over the supported hosts in configure.host, I noticed we still
> "support" VAX Ultrix / 4.2BSD:
> 
>  vax-*-bsd*)             gdb_host=vax ;;
>  vax-*-ultrix*)          gdb_host=vax ;;
> 
> Does it make sense to keep support for old Ultrix given we're
> dropping OSF/1 / Tru64?

Wikipedia says that VAX production ceased in 2005. The last VAX-specific
patch I can see being submitted to gdb-patches is us mentioning support
for VAX floats in the Ada mode (which we removed in 2010). VAX VMS was
removed in 2010 from BFD. There seems to be some regular activity around
VAX on the GCC side, though, but Ultrix itself seems to be no longer be
supported.

So this seems to indicate that we will be able to remove support
for Ultrix.

> Below's the table I was building, listing the full set of
> supported hosts, according to configure.host, mapping OS to triplet.

> | HP-UX             | hppa*-*-hpux*                 |
> | HP-UX             | ia64-*-hpux*                  |

I suspect that HP-UX will no longer find any takers. AdaCore had to
step-up many many years go to keep those alive. The situation is
different today, and we are stepping down.

-- 
Joel

Re: VAX Ultrix? (Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64)

[Maciej W. Rozycki]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Joel Brobecker wrote:

> Wikipedia says that VAX production ceased in 2005. The last VAX-specific
> patch I can see being submitted to gdb-patches is us mentioning support
> for VAX floats in the Ada mode (which we removed in 2010). VAX VMS was
> removed in 2010 from BFD. There seems to be some regular activity around
> VAX on the GCC side, though, but Ultrix itself seems to be no longer be
> supported.

 Oh, I have some VAX/Linux stuff waiting too; although whether it makes 
sense to submit or not will depend on what happens to support for that 
platform in the Linux kernel and glibc.  I've got a port mostly working, 
but both the kernel and glibc are rather ancient and glibc can't proceed 
without defining a TLS ABI.  I have no interest in Ultrix itself though.

  Maciej

Re: VAX Ultrix? (Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64)

[Pedro Alves]

On 10/13/2014 02:57 PM, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> 
>> Wikipedia says that VAX production ceased in 2005. The last VAX-specific
>> patch I can see being submitted to gdb-patches is us mentioning support
>> for VAX floats in the Ada mode (which we removed in 2010). VAX VMS was
>> removed in 2010 from BFD. There seems to be some regular activity around
>> VAX on the GCC side, though, but Ultrix itself seems to be no longer be
>> supported.
> 
>  Oh, I have some VAX/Linux stuff waiting too; although whether it makes 
> sense to submit or not will depend on what happens to support for that 
> platform in the Linux kernel and glibc.  I've got a port mostly working, 
> but both the kernel and glibc are rather ancient and glibc can't proceed 
> without defining a TLS ABI.  I have no interest in Ultrix itself though.

OK, thanks.

TBC, I'm looking at this from the "DEC replaced Ultrix with OSF/1"
angle, not really paying attention to VAX vs Alpha.

I'm more interested in getting rid of old operating systems
than old architectures, in the sense that those could potentially
hold back newer tool/compiler requirements.  Modern tools running on
VAX is fine with me.

Thanks,
Pedro Alves

Re: VAX Ultrix? (Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64)

[Mark Kettenis]

> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 06:38:09 -0700
> From: Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
> 
> > Going over the supported hosts in configure.host, I noticed we still
> > "support" VAX Ultrix / 4.2BSD:
> > 
> >  vax-*-bsd*)             gdb_host=vax ;;
> >  vax-*-ultrix*)          gdb_host=vax ;;
> > 
> > Does it make sense to keep support for old Ultrix given we're
> > dropping OSF/1 / Tru64?
> 
> Wikipedia says that VAX production ceased in 2005. The last VAX-specific
> patch I can see being submitted to gdb-patches is us mentioning support
> for VAX floats in the Ada mode (which we removed in 2010). VAX VMS was
> removed in 2010 from BFD. There seems to be some regular activity around
> VAX on the GCC side, though, but Ultrix itself seems to be no longer be
> supported.

There are probably quite a few VAXen still running.  Just learned last
week there are still some radiotelescopes around running a VAX to
control the telescope.  But they're probably running VMS on those
though.  If you want, there's the SIMH simulator.

> So this seems to indicate that we will be able to remove support
> for Ultrix.

FWIW, I kept the VAX Ultrix and VAX 4.2BSD code around as an example
of how a classic ptrace(2) implementation works.  Helped me a great
bit when refactoring inf-ptrace.c back in the days.  Linux really
turned ptrace(2) into a mess...

Other than the educational value, there is no point in keeping Ultrix
and BSD4.2 support alive.  I'm pretty sure that GDB has become too
bloated to compile and/or run on these systems.

> > Below's the table I was building, listing the full set of
> > supported hosts, according to configure.host, mapping OS to triplet.
> 
> > | HP-UX             | hppa*-*-hpux*                 |
> > | HP-UX             | ia64-*-hpux*                  |
> 
> I suspect that HP-UX will no longer find any takers. AdaCore had to
> step-up many many years go to keep those alive. The situation is
> different today, and we are stepping down.

It'd be somewhat sad to see inf-ttrace.c go.  IMHO ttrace(2) is by far
the best example of how to do a proper threads-aware debugger interface.

Re: VAX Ultrix? (Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64)

[Pedro Alves]

On 10/13/2014 05:03 PM, Mark Kettenis wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2014 06:38:09 -0700
>> From: Joel Brobecker <brobecker@adacore.com>
>>
>>> Going over the supported hosts in configure.host, I noticed we still
>>> "support" VAX Ultrix / 4.2BSD:
>>>
>>>  vax-*-bsd*)             gdb_host=vax ;;
>>>  vax-*-ultrix*)          gdb_host=vax ;;
>>>
>>> Does it make sense to keep support for old Ultrix given we're
>>> dropping OSF/1 / Tru64?
>>
>> Wikipedia says that VAX production ceased in 2005. The last VAX-specific
>> patch I can see being submitted to gdb-patches is us mentioning support
>> for VAX floats in the Ada mode (which we removed in 2010). VAX VMS was
>> removed in 2010 from BFD. There seems to be some regular activity around
>> VAX on the GCC side, though, but Ultrix itself seems to be no longer be
>> supported.
> 
> There are probably quite a few VAXen still running.  Just learned last
> week there are still some radiotelescopes around running a VAX to
> control the telescope.  But they're probably running VMS on those
> though.  If you want, there's the SIMH simulator.
> 
>> So this seems to indicate that we will be able to remove support
>> for Ultrix.
> 
> FWIW, I kept the VAX Ultrix and VAX 4.2BSD code around as an example
> of how a classic ptrace(2) implementation works.  Helped me a great
> bit when refactoring inf-ptrace.c back in the days.  Linux really
> turned ptrace(2) into a mess...

For my own education, which code are you referring to though?
The PT_READ_U / PT_WRITE_U bits in inf-ptrace.c?

> 
> Other than the educational value, there is no point in keeping Ultrix
> and BSD4.2 support alive.  I'm pretty sure that GDB has become too
> bloated to compile and/or run on these systems.
> 
>>> Below's the table I was building, listing the full set of
>>> supported hosts, according to configure.host, mapping OS to triplet.
>>
>>> | HP-UX             | hppa*-*-hpux*                 |
>>> | HP-UX             | ia64-*-hpux*                  |
>>
>> I suspect that HP-UX will no longer find any takers. AdaCore had to
>> step-up many many years go to keep those alive. The situation is
>> different today, and we are stepping down.
> 
> It'd be somewhat sad to see inf-ttrace.c go.  IMHO ttrace(2) is by far
> the best example of how to do a proper threads-aware debugger interface.

Yeah, I agree here.

Thanks,
Pedro Alves

GDB is removing VAX Ultrix support

[Pedro Alves]

On 10/13/2014 05:03 PM, Mark Kettenis wrote:
> Other than the educational value, there is no point in keeping Ultrix
> and BSD4.2 support alive.  I'm pretty sure that GDB has become too
> bloated to compile and/or run on these systems.

OK, I'll send a patch to remove support for these soon.

Thanks,
Pedro Alves

Re: GDB dropping support for mips-irix and alpha-tru64

[Pedro Alves]

On 09/11/2014 07:52 PM, Joel Brobecker wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> The GDB project is planning on removing support for the following
> platforms:
>   - MIPS IRIX (mips*-sgi-irix5*, mips*-sgi-irix6*)
>   - Alpha Tru64 (alpha*-*-osf*)

To close the loop here, FYI, support for these targets has
been removed.

Thanks,
Pedro Alves

Support for VAX Ultrix removed

[Pedro Alves]

FYI, support for VAX Ultrix was now removed.

Thanks,
Pedro Alves