From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com (mail-wr1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB4D93858D33 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 13:31:38 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org CB4D93858D33 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=adacore.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=adacore.com Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id r28so1389124wra.5 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 05:31:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=adacore.com; s=google; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=9VjSg18F4cjDdPaDmlCIaQhDvMb9jIuudhsWmsy8buI=; b=hyNCOY+W3W3nrZuU0yCuQyniPcWRWT5//il9rRbXH6o+6MNN875H6WlvRn81GEMkoe JXZhx8sPskjMhkNXdzYZi96jxeEYh/lvA7P70QetQVNBrNDGpO9GIEg28mhv9YmrX8gM m3/Hxdw6PMlZbIp+9yPlbjaBxK0oK7Oj1DsMPoeMxXeKYIwkQNH1CaFvMN3ZIDNl2olU 9sNZ3N6X8ajYbdgVnPXO2OpBAkp5fGrqFw7ek/gy0CDi34iKJK+9sqkYs8/s7wYiKfB1 x+jbJDHhZwb1KbMnM7tO7CiposVl7unGacDw9ib/K7qcXEOgpRnVxDETB33oBmCz6+Jg ynZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=9VjSg18F4cjDdPaDmlCIaQhDvMb9jIuudhsWmsy8buI=; b=Iqv9dCPgWxOKch9hsxpWFB53SXwnzaDPGuXw+mbCo1OUX0C6w4RF0ojV2MnczS0YTV cb10UuI8Z3CyONIHtphxW150iAXDvTxbcGNETJotHLZFuLHKBobUlBr5ZpBgRTHNTHCn 2NSuyLoIwTXMVHCMgbZIUmP5p6kXSGGNl7Iee0Y34+54uquaBt1i1gAwZQAU9y8EafwI d4MWStkjII/uJbWKe+EPWBf3p4xX9BI1otAwdxmbRjRayu7FKMjR0uANUV2C3GEeFca+ neyRIbCPx3UjoI8rWraQYkkcK8w54mapf8dV8rFax7V87JV63HPioOUcZxLwiAjL6gRu ocvw== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKUwY0Uee80qOjktON5TzYa8NAQhRf98iz2XCtPnPX910GLexH24 np4XyOhIosEC1p0U+59b6AeZ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/S/oLAV3FhpuKE91N0TIc2B3jlT2bmA939AUNOlAqO6W1ygiTtk/yRam8fcafVlbfJYQNwJQ== X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6845:0:b0:2bf:d0a4:3e63 with SMTP id o5-20020a5d6845000000b002bfd0a43e63mr4776907wrw.44.1676554296449; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 05:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from takamaka.gnat.com (lfbn-reu-1-488-54.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr. [92.130.77.54]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n16-20020adffe10000000b002c58ca558b6sm1203646wrr.88.2023.02.16.05.31.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 16 Feb 2023 05:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by takamaka.gnat.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D8EF181E85; Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:31:33 +0400 (+04) Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 17:31:33 +0400 From: Joel Brobecker To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: Joel Brobecker , mark@klomp.org, aburgess@redhat.com, luis.machado@arm.com, simark@simark.ca, gdb@sourceware.org Subject: Re: Any concrete plans after the GDB BoF? Message-ID: References: <20230212124345.GH2430@gnu.wildebeest.org> <87r0utu6ew.fsf@redhat.com> <65409b73-fc6d-9a89-3541-31eb1a0b0791@arm.com> <87bklxtx7r.fsf@redhat.com> <7112932f-4260-2f33-e619-c7130e0abb20@arm.com> <87zg9fkmt4.fsf@redhat.com> <20230216095159.GD6028@gnu.wildebeest.org> <83zg9d7rfl.fsf@gnu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83zg9d7rfl.fsf@gnu.org> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: > > There are not a whole lot of hosting platforms out there, so my concern > > is that, by making email integration a requirement, you're automatically > > eliminating a number of solutions which could answer your requirements > > just as well, only just differently, and from there, lose some great > > features out there. > > Please also take into consideration the other side of this: switching > to a web-based discussions makes participation via email all but > impractical. People tend to answer short answers without quoting the > context, assuming that all the context is visible in the web form > anyway, and that makes email messages undecipherable. I follow one > such repository, which uses GitHub, for more than a year, and it is > very frustrating. > > So if good support for email is not a requirement, we need to consider > the consequences of basically abandoning email entirely. FTAOD, I am not saying that we must abandon email. I understand what everyone is saying, and I understand the benefits of email. But aren't we allowing our own experience to unfairly bias the list of requirements? Rather than say "email is nice because it provides those nice properties" therefore "let's keep emails", I think we should say "let's investigate any solution that preserve the nice properties", including those that don't do via email. Otherwise, you're putting the cart before the horses. If we think that web-based is necessarily bad and hopeless, then we're closing ourselves to some options where this might not be true. All I'm saying is that we need to keep an open mind, rather than corner ourselves by hanging on to one particular tool. You don't need the tool, you need what the tool does for you. If we allow ourselves to consider the idea that what's important is the ease of having discussions, and that perhaps there might be systems out there where discussions can be fluently had, read, and reread later, or if we consider the idea that a certain amount of sacrifice in this area in exchange for a significant-enough amount of benefits is worth considering, then we open our mind to evaluating more fairly a number of options which may surprise us, and be a net gain for us and for the community. -- Joel