[Bug localedata/352] New: Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

[Bug localedata/352] New: Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

[pogonyshev at gmx dot net]

In Russian language thousands are separated with spaces or not separated at 
all.  In glibc's locale `thousands_sep' is set to a point (even though 
`mon_thousands_sep' is correctly set to space).  I checked with CVS, this is 
still true.

-- 
           Summary: Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a
                    dot (0x2E)
           Product: glibc
           Version: unspecified
            Status: NEW
          Severity: enhancement
          Priority: P3
         Component: localedata
        AssignedTo: pere at hungry dot com
        ReportedBy: pogonyshev at gmx dot net
                CC: glibc-bugs at sources dot redhat dot com


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

[pere at hungry dot com]

------- Additional Comments From pere at hungry dot com  2004-09-02 08:55 -------
I assume you are talking about the ru_RU locale?

Should it be space (0x20) or non-breaking space (0xA0)?

I've send an email to the previous contributors for the ru_RU
locale (Sergei Ivanov, Vadim V. Zhytnikov, Ilya
Ovchinnikov and Alexander V. Lukyanov) to get their comments on this
change request.

Do you have any official looking Russian documents/web pages
specifying or using monetary formating with space instead of
period?

-- 
           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Severity|enhancement                 |minor
             Status|NEW                         |WAITING


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

[lvm at mystery dot lviv dot net]

-- 
           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |lvm at mystery dot lviv dot
                   |                            |net


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

[pogonyshev at gmx dot net]

------- Additional Comments From pogonyshev at gmx dot net  2004-09-02 18:15 -------
Subject: Re:  Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

> I assume you are talking about the ru_RU locale?

Yes.

> Should it be space (0x20) or non-breaking space (0xA0)?

Well, if non-breaking space is possible in context of glib, then of course
it is a much better option.

> I've send an email to the previous contributors for the ru_RU
> locale (Sergei Ivanov, Vadim V. Zhytnikov, Ilya
> Ovchinnikov and Alexander V. Lukyanov) to get their comments on this
> change request.
> 
> Do you have any official looking Russian documents/web pages
> specifying or using monetary formating with space instead of
> period?

Here is the most official recommendation I found in a brief search (in
Russian):

    http://spravka.gramota.ru/buro.html?gotoq=145837

Crude translation of the answer to English:

    Technical rules of typing direct to separate into groups number which
    have at least 4 digits (groups of 3 digits each, right to left).  A
    dot between groups is prohibited.  Correct is: 12 680 459,30.

A few "non-official" arguments I have:

* I _never ever_ saw dots as thousands separator in well-published books and
in the few books I checked, spaces were used (e.g. in a Biological
Encyclopedia).  I tend not to consider books from 1990 and onwards as in the
computer age the state of book formatting decreased significantly.

* I remember Artemiy Lebedev's (a well-known Russian designer) opinion on
this topic: spaces or no separators at all.  While he is not a linguist, he
is a man who doesn't say something he doesn't know about.  He is one of a
few people whom I trust even in areas they are not professionals in.

Unfortunately, my HDD failured recently, so I currently can't easily
read/answer mail.  My replies to this thread may be very delayed during a
few weeks.

Paul



-- 


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

[svivanov at pdmi dot ras dot ru]

------- Additional Comments From svivanov at pdmi dot ras dot ru  2004-09-08 18:17 -------
I agree that the separator should be the space or nothing.
The dot is never used for this purpose in Russian.

-- 


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

[pere at hungry dot com]

------- Additional Comments From pere at hungry dot com  2004-09-17 08:10 -------
The rationale look good to me.  I'll try to find time to prepare a
patch for the glibc maintainers.

-- 
           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|WAITING                     |ASSIGNED


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a space (0x20), not a dot (0x2E)

[pere at hungry dot com]

------- Additional Comments From pere at hungry dot com  2004-10-02 08:27 -------
Created an attachment (id=216)
 --> (http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=216&action=view)
Patch to fix ru_RU locale

This is the patch I propose based on the input from the bug reporter
and previous contributor.

-- 


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a non-breaking space (0xA0), not a dot (0x2E)

[pere at hungry dot com]

-- 
           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|Russian `thousands_sep'     |Russian `thousands_sep'
                   |should be a space (0x20),   |should be a non-breaking
                   |not a dot (0x2E)            |space (0xA0), not a dot
                   |                            |(0x2E)


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] [PATCH] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a non-breaking space (0xA0), not a dot (0x2E)

[pere at hungry dot com]

-- 
           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Summary|Russian `thousands_sep'     |[PATCH] Russian
                   |should be a non-breaking    |`thousands_sep' should be a
                   |space (0xA0), not a dot     |non-breaking space (0xA0),
                   |(0x2E)                      |not a dot (0x2E)


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] [PATCH] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a non-breaking space (0xA0), not a dot (0x2E)

[pogonyshev at gmx dot net]

------- Additional Comments From pogonyshev at gmx dot net  2005-07-03 10:25 -------
Any reason why this trivial patch is being held back for so long?

-- 


http://sources.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] [PATCH] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a non-breaking space (0xA0), not a dot (0x2E)

[drepper at redhat dot com]

------- Additional Comments From drepper at redhat dot com  2005-10-15 05:08 -------
I've been told that, if a space is used, then it is traditionally EN SPACE
<U2002> no <U00A0>.  For encodings which don't have <U2002> it can be
transliterated to <U00A0> but if this is right, <U2002> should be used.

-- 
           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |drepper at redhat dot com
             Status|ASSIGNED                    |WAITING


http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] [PATCH] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a non-breaking space (0xA0), not a dot (0x2E)

[drepper at redhat dot com]

------- Additional Comments From drepper at redhat dot com  2006-04-25 23:01 -------
No response in 6+ months.  Closing.

-- 
           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|WAITING                     |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |WONTFIX


http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

[Bug localedata/352] [PATCH] Russian `thousands_sep' should be a non-breaking space (0xA0), not a dot (0x2E)

[pogonyshev at gmx dot net]

------- Additional Comments From pogonyshev at gmx dot net  2006-04-30 15:38 -------
There's a patch, the bug is confirmed but is closed...  Great future for GNU
software...

-- 


http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=352

------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.