From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11302 invoked by alias); 25 Mar 2011 10:17:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 11290 invoked by uid 22791); 25 Mar 2011 10:17:28 -0000 X-SWARE-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 X-Spam-Check-By: sourceware.org Received: from localhost (HELO sourceware.org) (127.0.0.1) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.43rc1) with ESMTP; Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:17:24 +0000 From: "msv at kth dot se" To: glibc-bugs@sources.redhat.com Subject: [Bug localedata/11630] Odd time separator in Swedish time format for sv_SE X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: glibc X-Bugzilla-Component: localedata X-Bugzilla-Keywords: X-Bugzilla-Severity: normal X-Bugzilla-Who: msv at kth dot se X-Bugzilla-Status: WAITING X-Bugzilla-Priority: P2 X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: libc-locales at sources dot redhat.com X-Bugzilla-Target-Milestone: --- X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: CC Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: X-Bugzilla-URL: http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:17:00 -0000 Mailing-List: contact glibc-bugs-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: glibc-bugs-owner@sourceware.org X-SW-Source: 2011-03/txt/msg00104.txt.bz2 http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D11630 M=C3=A5rten Svantesson changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |msv at kth dot se --- Comment #5 from keld at keldix dot com 2010-05= -25 18:11:51 UTC --- Subject: Re: Odd time separator in Swedish time format for sv_SE On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 04:43:21PM -0000, pasky at suse dot cz wrote: >=20 > ------- Additional Comments From pasky at suse dot cz 2010-05-25 16:43 -= ------ > In the past, we had trouble with locale changes that were controversial, = thus in > case there are dissenting voices and the issue is ambiguous (e.g. common = usage > vs. standardization), we prefer to seek consensus. This is not to say thi= s bug > report should turn into a discussion forum, but you should first start a > discussion among other Swedish GNU users in the appropriate venue and gat= hering > feedback before pushing this further. >=20 > For starters, it would be good to have a feedback from the original locale > author (if you can contact them) and the GNU sv translation team > (http://translationproject.org/team/sv.html). I may be be the original locale author. I was at least the initial author of the swedish locale for glibc.=20 I am not Swedish, but I am Danish, and live close to the Swedish border. There is some discussion about ":" vs "." - and I have seen the same discussion in Norway. And in Denmark. Some prefer the ":" some the "." - language authorities tend to prefer the ".", while official standardizati= on organizations tend to prefer the ':'.=20 The official orthography specification, "Myndigheternas skrivregler" http://www.regeringen.se/sb/d/1= 08/a/33329 - has the following specification: > 9.2.2 Timmar, minuter och sekunder > Om tiden ska anges i timmar, minuter och sekunder skriver man p=C3=A5 > f=C3=B6ljande s=C3=A4tt: Larmet registrerades kl. 14.02.36. Br=C3=A5kdela= r av en se- > kund skriver man p=C3=A5 detta s=C3=A4tt: F=C3=B6rloppet tog 2,25 sekunde= r. In my translation it shows that the "." is the delimiter for hours and mi= nutes. In the entry in ISO 15897, which contains the ISO collection of POSIX local= es, the narrative spec says: http://std.dkuug.dk/cultreg/registrations/narrativ= e/sv_SE,_1.0 The source is the official Swedish Institute for Standardization SIS, in it= s department for Information Technology Standardization, ITS: > Time before noon: > 10:20 or 10.20 >=20 > Time after noon: > 17:40 or 17.40=20 So both forms are specified. The colon form is specified first. There is a Swedish standard for numerical specification of date and time, w= hich is based on ISO 8601. I think they have some deviations here, but not in the hour:minute:second delimiters. I think that both forms are understood and in widespread use in Sweden.=20 I personally prefer the ":" because of the conflict with "." usage as decimal point - inherited from American culture - which is threathening the= usage of the "," as the decimal delimiter, in most of continental Europe. But I do not have a conclusion here. Do we follow official language authori= ties, or do we follow official standardization authorities, or do we follow some opinion amongst native translators of Open Source Software, or do we f= ollow users? Or do we try to avoid to many changes in glibc? Best regards Keld --- Comment #6 from M=C3=A5rten Svantesson 2011-03-25 1= 0:17:08 UTC --- Swedish is not a standardised language. So what should be considered the correct usage is what people use the most. In this case colon is certainly = used the most as a separator when writing time. As mentioned different institutions in Sweden have given different opinions= in the matter, so they are useless in deciding the matter. The point for me is that I can't use glibc to localise time since it is incorrect for Swedish. --=20 Configure bugmail: http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=3Demail ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.