[Bug localedata/12349] New: Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[Bug localedata/12349] New: Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[julenx at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

           Summary: Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for
                    eu_ES locale
           Product: glibc
           Version: unspecified
            Status: NEW
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: localedata
        AssignedTo: libc-locales@sources.redhat.com
        ReportedBy: julenx@gmail.com


Created attachment 5169
  --> http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=5169
Fixes for thousands separator and first weekday

First weekday and first workday is Monday in Spain (and therefore for the eu_ES
locale), but the current locale data points to Sunday, which is incorrect. 

Also, the thousands separator is missing (which is a dot '.', U+002E) and
grouping has to be done with three digits.

Surprisingly this information has been fixed downstream in several
distributions, but the upstream version remains buggy.

The attached patch fixes the mentioned issues.

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[drepper.fsp at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

Ulrich Drepper <drepper.fsp at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |WAITING
                 CC|                            |drepper.fsp at gmail dot
                   |                            |com

--- Comment #1 from Ulrich Drepper <drepper.fsp at gmail dot com> 2011-05-09 17:46:59 UTC ---
Where is the reference for this change?

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[mikel at olasagasti dot info]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

Mikel Olasagasti <mikel at olasagasti dot info> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |mikel at olasagasti dot
                   |                            |info

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[pasky at ucw dot cz]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

Petr Baudis <pasky at ucw dot cz> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |pasky at ucw dot cz

--- Comment #4 from Petr Baudis <pasky at ucw dot cz> 2012-06-04 16:27:03 UTC ---
The first weekday has been fixed now as part of bug 14199. However, we would
still need some more references (or acknowledgement by original locale author)
for the thousands separator - please see
http://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/Contribution%20checklist#Qualification_.28Locales.29
for some specific hints about what we are looking for. Thanks!

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[cjlhomeaddress at gmail dot com]

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

Chris Leonard <cjlhomeaddress at gmail dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |cjlhomeaddress at gmail dot
                   |                            |com

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[fweimer at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Flags|                            |security-

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[julenx at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

--- Comment #5 from Julen Ruiz Aizpuru <julenx at gmail dot com> ---
I would expect Unicode CLDR to be a valid reference. There you go:
http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/25/by_type/numbers.symbols.html#Symbols_when_using_Western_Digits_%28latn%29

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[carlos at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |carlos at redhat dot com

--- Comment #6 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
(In reply to Julen Ruiz Aizpuru from comment #5)
> I would expect Unicode CLDR to be a valid reference. There you go:
> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/25/by_type/numbers.symbols.
> html#Symbols_when_using_Western_Digits_%28latn%29

Agreed, CLDR is a valid reference. In fact I think we should be copying exactly
what they do (and we are in other bugs). Since they have far more language
experts than we do working on the problem.

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[keld at keldix dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

--- Comment #7 from keld at keldix dot com <keld at keldix dot com> ---
On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 03:33:47PM +0000, carlos at redhat dot com wrote:
> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349
> 
> Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> changed:
> 
>            What    |Removed                     |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                  CC|                            |carlos at redhat dot com
> 
> --- Comment #6 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
> (In reply to Julen Ruiz Aizpuru from comment #5)
> > I would expect Unicode CLDR to be a valid reference. There you go:
> > http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/25/by_type/numbers.symbols.
> > html#Symbols_when_using_Western_Digits_%28latn%29
> 
> Agreed, CLDR is a valid reference. In fact I think we should be copying exactly
> what they do (and we are in other bugs). Since they have far more language
> experts than we do working on the problem.

Well, I do think we have many more language experts than CLDR.
CLDR is a small group of people, where we have hundreds of experts
in libc-locale. I know for my language Danish that the CLDR data has been
erroneous, and I tried to correct it to no avail at that time.
So I gave up and I do not give too much for their info.

Best regards
Keld

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[julenx at gmail dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

--- Comment #8 from Julen Ruiz Aizpuru <julenx at gmail dot com> ---
(In reply to keld@keldix.com from comment #7)
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 03:33:47PM +0000, carlos at redhat dot com wrote:
> 
> Well, I do think we have many more language experts than CLDR.
> CLDR is a small group of people, where we have hundreds of experts
> in libc-locale. I know for my language Danish that the CLDR data has been
> erroneous, and I tried to correct it to no avail at that time.
> So I gave up and I do not give too much for their info.

This is funny, because the situation for Basque is the other way round: in
libc-locale data for Basque remains erroneous for years, and I tried to correct
it. So I'm in the situation of giving up and not giving up too much for its
information.

I don't know the people involved in libc-locale, but you say hundreds of
experts? Just notice that the first_weekday issue has been there for years (bug
14199), and downstream distributions have had these fixes for a long while too.

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[keld at keldix dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

--- Comment #9 from keld at keldix dot com <keld at keldix dot com> ---
On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:54:36PM +0000, julenx at gmail dot com wrote:
> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349
> 
> --- Comment #8 from Julen Ruiz Aizpuru <julenx at gmail dot com> ---
> (In reply to keld@keldix.com from comment #7)
> > On Fri, Jun 27, 2014 at 03:33:47PM +0000, carlos at redhat dot com wrote:
> > 
> > Well, I do think we have many more language experts than CLDR.
> > CLDR is a small group of people, where we have hundreds of experts
> > in libc-locale. I know for my language Danish that the CLDR data has been
> > erroneous, and I tried to correct it to no avail at that time.
> > So I gave up and I do not give too much for their info.
> 
> This is funny, because the situation for Basque is the other way round: in
> libc-locale data for Basque remains erroneous for years, and I tried to correct
> it. So I'm in the situation of giving up and not giving up too much for its
> information.
> 
> I don't know the people involved in libc-locale, but you say hundreds of
> experts? Just notice that the first_weekday issue has been there for years (bug
> 14199), and downstream distributions have had these fixes for a long while too.

Well, not so funny then. We need to be productive, and it seems to be a problem
both with us and in CLDR. We just have to work harder.

Best regards
keld

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[myllynen at redhat dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |myllynen at redhat dot com

--- Comment #10 from Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> ---
Perhaps there are certain locales where glibc is better maintained but in
general CLDR looks to have more experts involved. For example, in some cases
there are national initiatives which work directly with CLDR. This is not
surprising given the vendor independent nature of CLDR. Now that Microsoft has
also joined CLDR [1] as contributing partner (alongside with Google, IBM, and
others) it certainly looks like CLDR has notable momentum and should not be
ignored.

1)
http://unicode-inc.blogspot.com/2014/05/cldr-v26-open-for-data-submission.html

Thanks.

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[Bug localedata/12349] Incorrect thousands separator and first weekday for eu_ES locale

[keld at keldix dot com]

https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349

--- Comment #11 from keld at keldix dot com <keld at keldix dot com> ---
On Tue, Jul 01, 2014 at 09:11:46AM +0000, myllynen at redhat dot com wrote:
> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=12349
> 
> Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> changed:
> 
>            What    |Removed                     |Added
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                  CC|                            |myllynen at redhat dot com
> 
> --- Comment #10 from Marko Myllynen <myllynen at redhat dot com> ---
> Perhaps there are certain locales where glibc is better maintained but in
> general CLDR looks to have more experts involved. For example, in some cases
> there are national initiatives which work directly with CLDR. This is not
> surprising given the vendor independent nature of CLDR. Now that Microsoft has
> also joined CLDR [1] as contributing partner (alongside with Google, IBM, and
> others) it certainly looks like CLDR has notable momentum and should not be
> ignored.
> 
> 1)
> http://unicode-inc.blogspot.com/2014/05/cldr-v26-open-for-data-submission.html

Yes, we should not ignore CLDR. But there are also national initiatives
that work directly with ISO on their national conventions, where they do not
work
directly with CLDR. CLDR is an American initiative and is very much
dominated by US companies, as you also indicate.

Best regards
keld

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