* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
@ 2014-03-06 17:00 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
2014-03-06 17:12 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
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From: schwab@linux-m68k.org @ 2014-03-06 17:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #1 from Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> ---
$ date --iso-8601
2014-03-06
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
2014-03-06 17:00 ` [Bug localedata/16668] " schwab@linux-m68k.org
@ 2014-03-06 17:12 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
2014-03-06 17:58 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
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From: byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca @ 2014-03-06 17:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #2 from James B. Byrne <byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca> ---
(In reply to Andreas Schwab from comment #1)
> $ date --iso-8601
> 2014-03-06
And?... how is this going to make this format detected in software that looks
at LANG to get its formatting information? Is that not the POINT of locales?
To avoid having to set a custom default is each and every program that needs a
format?
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
2014-03-06 17:00 ` [Bug localedata/16668] " schwab@linux-m68k.org
2014-03-06 17:12 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
@ 2014-03-06 17:58 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
2014-03-06 19:36 ` carlos at redhat dot com
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From: schwab@linux-m68k.org @ 2014-03-06 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #3 from Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> ---
I would not use that for my own purpose, even if my government required it.
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2014-03-06 17:58 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
@ 2014-03-06 19:36 ` carlos at redhat dot com
2014-03-06 19:38 ` carlos at redhat dot com
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From: carlos at redhat dot com @ 2014-03-06 19:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #4 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
(In reply to James B. Byrne from comment #0)
> This is an ongoing problem whose resolution seems stymied by an intransigent
> maintainer. See bug: Bug 12731 and Bug 9842.
As a Canadian my opinion is that Ulrich is wrong. Most Canadians expect that
the date today should be written as 2014-02-06, and not anything else that is
used by American geographies.
> % Original date format (%m/%d/%Y)
> %d_fmt "<U0025><U0064><U002F><U0025><U006D><U002F><U0025><U0079>"
>
> % Custom date format (%Y-%b-%d)
> d_fmt "<U0025><U0059><U002d><U0025><U0062><U002d><U0025><U0064>"
Thus this change is going to be OK and I will make this change immediately
after gathering consensus from the distribution maintainers on the development
list.
> % Original time format %r (%H:%M:%S am|pm)
> %t_fmt "<U0025><U0072>"
> %am_pm "<U0041><U004D>";"<U0050><U004D>"
> %t_fmt_ampm
> "<U0025><U0049><U003A><U0025><U004D><U003A><U0025><U0053><U0020><U0025><U0070
> >"
>
> % 24 hour time %T (HH:mm:ss) no am/pm.
> t_fmt "<U0025><U0054>"
> am_pm "";""
> t_fmt_ampm ""
This change is not OK. The average Canadian still expects 12 hour clocks with
am and pm. Therefore this change should not be made.
> Is their any reason why supplemental en_CA@ISO and fr_CA@ISO localdefs
> should not be provided with glibc as an alternative for those of us
> 'no-ones' that have a requirement to use ISO format dates and times and are
> not conversant with hand encoding data into UTF-8?
That is an excellent recommendation.
Would you accept an en_CA@ISO locale for official compliance with ISO8901?
That would not require any consensus from the distribution maintainers except
to ask that they acknowledge their support for the new locale.
Comments?
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2014-03-06 19:36 ` carlos at redhat dot com
@ 2014-03-06 19:38 ` carlos at redhat dot com
2014-03-06 20:23 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
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From: carlos at redhat dot com @ 2014-03-06 19:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |carlos at redhat dot com
--- Comment #5 from Carlos O'Donell <carlos at redhat dot com> ---
(In reply to Andreas Schwab from comment #3)
> I would not use that for my own purpose, even if my government required it.
You are free to do what you wish with your own systems. Including creating your
own locales. That doesn't help the bug reporter resolver their problem.
Do you have any constructive feedback on this issue?
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2014-03-06 19:38 ` carlos at redhat dot com
@ 2014-03-06 20:23 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
2014-03-06 20:24 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
` (7 subsequent siblings)
13 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca @ 2014-03-06 20:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #6 from James B. Byrne <byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca> ---
(In reply to Carlos O'Donell from comment #4)
> (In reply to James B. Byrne from comment #0)
> > This is an ongoing problem whose resolution seems stymied by an intransigent
> > maintainer. See bug: Bug 12731 and Bug 9842.
>
> As a Canadian my opinion is that Ulrich is wrong. Most Canadians expect that
> the date today should be written as 2014-02-06, and not anything else that
> is used by American geographies.
>
> > % Original date format (%m/%d/%Y)
> > %d_fmt "<U0025><U0064><U002F><U0025><U006D><U002F><U0025><U0079>"
> >
> > % Custom date format (%Y-%b-%d)
> > d_fmt "<U0025><U0059><U002d><U0025><U0062><U002d><U0025><U0064>"
>
> Thus this change is going to be OK and I will make this change immediately
> after gathering consensus from the distribution maintainers on the
> development list.
>
> > % Original time format %r (%H:%M:%S am|pm)
> > %t_fmt "<U0025><U0072>"
> > %am_pm "<U0041><U004D>";"<U0050><U004D>"
> > %t_fmt_ampm
> > "<U0025><U0049><U003A><U0025><U004D><U003A><U0025><U0053><U0020><U0025><U0070
> > >"
> >
> > % 24 hour time %T (HH:mm:ss) no am/pm.
> > t_fmt "<U0025><U0054>"
> > am_pm "";""
> > t_fmt_ampm ""
>
> This change is not OK. The average Canadian still expects 12 hour clocks
> with am and pm. Therefore this change should not be made.
>
> > Is their any reason why supplemental en_CA@ISO and fr_CA@ISO localdefs
> > should not be provided with glibc as an alternative for those of us
> > 'no-ones' that have a requirement to use ISO format dates and times and are
> > not conversant with hand encoding data into UTF-8?
>
> That is an excellent recommendation.
>
> Would you accept an en_CA@ISO locale for official compliance with ISO8901?
>
> That would not require any consensus from the distribution maintainers
> except to ask that they acknowledge their support for the new locale.
>
> Comments?
Two additional xx_CA@ISO locales that implemented strict ISO8601 would be my
preferred option. I completely support NOT changing the established default
behaviour of anything that causes inexplicable changes visible to end-users.
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (5 preceding siblings ...)
2014-03-06 20:23 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
@ 2014-03-06 20:24 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
2014-03-06 20:24 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
` (6 subsequent siblings)
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From: schwab@linux-m68k.org @ 2014-03-06 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #7 from Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> ---
That was as constructive as it can get. The government has no influence on
daily life in most parts of your personal life, outside of busines. Eg.
everyone is still using horse powers, even though every car dealer is required
to use units of kW.
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (6 preceding siblings ...)
2014-03-06 20:24 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
@ 2014-03-06 20:24 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
2014-03-06 21:46 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (5 subsequent siblings)
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From: schwab@linux-m68k.org @ 2014-03-06 20:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #8 from Andreas Schwab <schwab@linux-m68k.org> ---
That was as constructive as it can get. The government has no influence on
daily life in most parts of your personal life, outside of busines. Eg.
everyone is still using horse powers, even though every car dealer is required
to use units of kW.
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (7 preceding siblings ...)
2014-03-06 20:24 ` schwab@linux-m68k.org
@ 2014-03-06 21:46 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
2014-06-13 6:38 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
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From: byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca @ 2014-03-06 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #9 from James B. Byrne <byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca> ---
(In reply to Carlos O'Donell from comment #4)
> As a Canadian my opinion is that Ulrich is wrong. Most Canadians expect that
> the date today should be written as 2014-02-06, and not anything else that
> is used by American geographies.
>
> > % Original date format (%m/%d/%Y)
> > %d_fmt "<U0025><U0064><U002F><U0025><U006D><U002F><U0025><U0079>"
> >
> > % Custom date format (%Y-%b-%d)
> > d_fmt "<U0025><U0059><U002d><U0025><U0062><U002d><U0025><U0064>"
>
> Thus this change is going to be OK and I will make this change immediately
> after gathering consensus from the distribution maintainers on the
> development list.
I think that you want %Y-%m-%d to be ISO compliant.
d_fmt "<U0025><U0059><U002D><U0025><U006D><U002D><U0025><U0064>"
I used the three letter short form month (%b) in the example. Had one been
available then I would have simply used a straight ISO8601 localedef. But as I
had to hand code it anyway I prefer to read the month directly on my desktop
displays and not have to map numbers to the names of the month in my head. The
servers got the the strict version.
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (8 preceding siblings ...)
2014-03-06 21:46 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
@ 2014-06-13 6:38 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
2014-12-03 18:11 ` mjc at avtechpulse dot com
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From: fweimer at redhat dot com @ 2014-06-13 6:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |fweimer at redhat dot com
Flags| |security-
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (9 preceding siblings ...)
2014-06-13 6:38 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
@ 2014-12-03 18:11 ` mjc at avtechpulse dot com
2014-12-03 18:12 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
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From: mjc at avtechpulse dot com @ 2014-12-03 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
Michael Chudobiak <mjc at avtechpulse dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |mjc at avtechpulse dot com
--- Comment #10 from Michael Chudobiak <mjc at avtechpulse dot com> ---
The ISO short date format (%Y-%m-%d) is widely used in Canada.
It is on bank cheques, passports, driver licenses, and MS Windows.
It is specified by the Canadian Standards Association.
The existing d_fmt is ambiguous, confusing, and subject to misinterpretation.
It is also different from the French Canadian locale. I do not think that the
ISO date code is uncomfortable for anyone in Canada.
fr_CA uses the ISO code:
d_fmt "<U0025><U0059><U002D><U0025><U006D><U002D><U0025><U0064>"
Please make d_fmt ISO-compliant, same as fr_CA.
The time codes are a different matter, common usage is different than the ISO
spec.
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (10 preceding siblings ...)
2014-12-03 18:11 ` mjc at avtechpulse dot com
@ 2014-12-03 18:12 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
2015-05-13 13:40 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
2015-08-29 20:33 ` vapier at gentoo dot org
13 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: fweimer at redhat dot com @ 2014-12-03 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC|fweimer at redhat dot com |
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (11 preceding siblings ...)
2014-12-03 18:12 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
@ 2015-05-13 13:40 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
2015-08-29 20:33 ` vapier at gentoo dot org
13 siblings, 0 replies; 15+ messages in thread
From: byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca @ 2015-05-13 13:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
--- Comment #11 from James B. Byrne <byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca> ---
If there are going to be xx_CA@ISO locales created then please make them
strictly ISO8601 compliant. If additional locales are desired to account for
the use of twelve hour o'clock style times with a.m. and p.m. suffixes then
please make these available as additional derivative locales. Our need is is
for strict ISO 8601 compliance. Changing the date alone does not solve the
underlying problem.
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* [Bug localedata/16668] ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA
2014-03-06 16:55 [Bug localedata/16668] New: ISO date time format localedef needed for en_CA byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
` (12 preceding siblings ...)
2015-05-13 13:40 ` byrnejb@harte-lyne.ca
@ 2015-08-29 20:33 ` vapier at gentoo dot org
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From: vapier at gentoo dot org @ 2015-08-29 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: glibc-bugs
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16668
Mike Frysinger <vapier at gentoo dot org> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |vapier at gentoo dot org
Depends on| |9842
Referenced Bugs:
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=9842
[Bug 9842] Incorrect date format in en_CA.utf8 locale
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