* GNU Toolchain web site mock-up @ 2018-01-01 0:00 David Edelsohn 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: David Edelsohn @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carlos O'Donell; +Cc: gnutools-advocacy I have created an initial mock-up of the landing page and developer page on Github using Bootstrap. https://edelsohn.github.com/gnutools/ We can use Google Docs to create a shared plan. We also can use Github issues for feedback and items. Any thoughts about the design of the web pages and how to proceed? Thanks, David ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: GNU Toolchain web site mock-up 2018-01-01 0:00 GNU Toolchain web site mock-up David Edelsohn @ 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Alexandre Oliva @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David Edelsohn; +Cc: Carlos O'Donell, gnutools-advocacy On Oct 6, 2018, David Edelsohn <dje.gcc@gmail.com> wrote: > We can use Google Docs to create a shared plan. We also can use > Github issues for feedback and items. Thanks for stating a separate thread for the discussion about the design. I'm afraid I have to ask who's this 'We' you write about. I've asked nicely, five times already, for us (myself included) not to use these SaaSS sites that push proprietary software onto users, because the GNU project and myself won't use them. Instead of admitting that the conversation in the other thread was indeed about what tools to use, this is how you respond, blatantly excluding me and others loyal to the GNU values, or pretending there's no objection to that selection for us all to use to collaborate? It suggests you're unilaterally closing the discussion about the tools, despite the disagreement. That's not nice at all! It's not just rude, arrogant, offensive and harmful to GNU. It's also insulting and unwelcoming. Please reconsider, or clarify. Thanks, -- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter https://FSFLA.org/blogs/lxo Be the change, be Free! FSF Latin America board member GNU Toolchain Engineer Free Software Evangelist ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: GNU Toolchain web site mock-up 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva @ 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Carlos O'Donell @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: lxoliva; +Cc: David Edelsohn, gnutools-advocacy On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 10:53 AM Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva@fsfla.org> wrote: > I'm afraid I have to ask who's this 'We' you write about. Everybody else who is willing to use such tools. Feel free to use any other tools and post mokcups of what you would like a GNU Toolchain website to look like. Cheers, Carlos. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: GNU Toolchain web site mock-up 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell @ 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carlos O'Donell; +Cc: lxoliva, dje.gcc, gnutools-advocacy, rms > > I'm afraid I have to ask who's this 'We' you write about. > Everybody else who is willing to use such tools. The word "tools" is vague and draws attention away from the issue, which is asking the participants in this group to run the nonfree client software that Google Docs requires. The reason Alexandre is unwilling to run that software is that he supports the ideas and goals of GNU. To make this site properly promote GNU, its development needs the participation of people like Alexandre who hold to those ideas. That is crucial for a good outcome. > Feel free to use any other tools and post mokcups of what you would > like a GNU Toolchain website to look like. He could do this on his own, but that would not enable him to truly participate. The question is, could he work with you in the joint effort while doing it that way? For instance, could he access your latest draft, in its source form, and send you proposed patches to that, without running the nonfree software? If he can do that, I suppose cooperation could function that way. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: GNU Toolchain web site mock-up 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Carlos O'Donell @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: rms; +Cc: lxoliva, David Edelsohn, gnutools-advocacy On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 7:54 AM Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote: > He could do this on his own, but that would not enable him to truly > participate. The question is, could he work with you in the joint > effort while doing it that way? For instance, could he access your > latest draft, in its source form, and send you proposed patches to > that, without running the nonfree software? > > If he can do that, I suppose cooperation could function that way. Absolutely. Any drafts in HTML with code will be reviewable by Alex. Cheers, Carlos. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: GNU Toolchain web site mock-up 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell @ 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carlos O'Donell; +Cc: lxoliva, dje.gcc, gnutools-advocacy [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > Any drafts in HTML with code will be reviewable by Alex. Alex, does this work for you? -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: GNU Toolchain web site mock-up 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 1 sibling, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Alexandre Oliva @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carlos O'Donell; +Cc: rms, David Edelsohn, gnutools-advocacy On Oct 9, 2018, "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos@systemhalted.org> wrote: > Any drafts in HTML with code will be reviewable by Alex. But that would require people to post it somewhere I could get to. Either Google Dox would end up being no different from using any local office tool, which means Google Dox would be used privately only, so that there's no point in advertising its use, or I'd be at a disadvantage position for needing these additional steps to collaborate, while some others would be collaborating directly through the proprietary software and SaaSS web service. The inadequate format and tooling for distributed and decentralized collaboration would create even worse issues than those I've experienced occasionally, trying to contribute to projects that unfortunately adopted Github and insist contributors to set up an account and submit Github pull requests, rather than patches/patchesets or traditional git pull requests. Neither setting up an account nor creating pull requests is possible without running non-Free Software provided by Github, so... you see where this is going. Either way, with Github or an office suite, I don't quite quite see how I'd propose patches, and how they'd be integrated. Being one of the members of this advocacy project from the very beginning (when it turned from dje's individual initiative to a groupo effort), I don't wish to be left out, or placed at a disadvantage, when there are tools we could use to collaborate to promote GNU, that are a lot more aligned with GNU. Now, I see I had misunderstood the intended use of the proposed tools. When Google Dox was mentioned, I thought of plans in text form, not of web sites proper. I have never used Google Dox, but the idea of designing a web site on it comes across as quite alien to me. Anyway, if at this point the idea is to propose web site designs, to be later implemented using some proper Free Software tools, I guess I need not even participate. I don't have much perception to looks, what I intended to cotribute to the project was written material (e.g. articles). However, there are other GNU contributors who may wish to contribute to the design of the sites' looks, and we don't want to exclude them from participating by requiring the use of proprietary tools, so I'd still appreciate clarification as to the extent of the intended use of the so far suggested proprietary tools and SaaSS sites, and make sure that we won't stop or make it difficult for anyone to participate by selecting inadequate tools for GNU. -- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter https://FSFLA.org/blogs/lxo Be the change, be Free! FSF Latin America board member GNU Toolchain Engineer Free Software Evangelist ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: GNU Toolchain web site mock-up 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva @ 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Richard Stallman @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alexandre Oliva; +Cc: carlos, dje.gcc, gnutools-advocacy [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] There is a firefox extension for viewing the contents of a Google Docs page. Its name is LibreJS Google Docs 1.1. (I can't find the URL in IceCat.) With that, I think you can see their current version. But I don't know whether this actually functions in the specific case. Can you find it and try it? If you can't find it, I will investigate and tell you where it is. -- Dr Richard Stallman President, Free Software Foundation (https://gnu.org, https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: GNU Toolchain web site mock-up 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman @ 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Carlos O'Donell @ 2018-01-01 0:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: lxoliva; +Cc: rms, David Edelsohn, gnutools-advocacy On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 12:38 AM Alexandre Oliva <lxoliva@fsfla.org> wrote: > However, there are other GNU contributors who may wish > to contribute to the design of the sites' looks, and we don't want to > exclude them from participating by requiring the use of proprietary > tools, so I'd still appreciate clarification as to the extent of the > intended use of the so far suggested proprietary tools and SaaSS sites, > and make sure that we won't stop or make it difficult for anyone to > participate by selecting inadequate tools for GNU. I will make available offline drafts of the design in formats accessible to GNU contributors. This way comments can arrive via their review and this mailing list. David has already published direct html+code of a prototype website which you can comment on and express comments and review. Please start reviewing that content (it's the only prototype we have right now). Cheers, Carlos. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2018-10-11 4:58 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2018-01-01 0:00 GNU Toolchain web site mock-up David Edelsohn 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Alexandre Oliva 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Richard Stallman 2018-01-01 0:00 ` Carlos O'Donell
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