Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Michael Ernst]

Does Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0 run in a Windows environment like Windows NT or Windows 98?

*****************************************************
Michael Ernst
University of Michigan Health System
ernstmik@umich.edu
734-615-0092
*****************************************************

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Fernando Nasser]

Michael Ernst wrote:
> 
> Does Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0 run in a Windows environment like Windows NT or Windows 98?
> 

If you have the Cygwin environment (see source.redhat.com) I am sure they work.
At least for debugging programs compiled with gcc.

I believe gdb also runs on pure Windows machines, but I never used it.

You'll have to ask at gdb@sources.redhat.com, which is the gdb list, what would
be the limitations (it may not debug Visual C++ programs or something).



-- 
Fernando Nasser
Red Hat - Toronto                       E-Mail:  fnasser@redhat.com
2323 Yonge Street, Suite #300
Toronto, Ontario   M4P 2C9

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Eray Ozkural (exa)]

Fernando Nasser wrote:
> If you have the Cygwin environment (see source.redhat.com) I am sure they work.
> At least for debugging programs compiled with gcc.
> 
> I believe gdb also runs on pure Windows machines, but I never used it.

They work MUCH BETTER on windows machines, something I don't quite
understand. This seems to be related to performance flaws of tcl/tk.
On the same machine source navigator works just like a native app
on windows, but on linux the UI is so slow that you'd think it was
written in Java. The problem is not with the X since I've very fast
X11 apps (hardware accel ok)

Any ideas?


-- 
Eray (exa) Ozkural
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
e-mail: erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Bruce Stephens]

"Eray Ozkural (exa)" <erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr> writes:

> Fernando Nasser wrote:
> > If you have the Cygwin environment (see source.redhat.com) I am sure they work.
> > At least for debugging programs compiled with gcc.
> > 
> > I believe gdb also runs on pure Windows machines, but I never used it.
> 
> They work MUCH BETTER on windows machines, something I don't quite
> understand. This seems to be related to performance flaws of tcl/tk.
> On the same machine source navigator works just like a native app
> on windows, but on linux the UI is so slow that you'd think it was
> written in Java. The problem is not with the X since I've very fast
> X11 apps (hardware accel ok)
> 
> Any ideas?

You might try explicitly undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS in
src/tk/generic/tk.h.  In at least some linux X servers, this is quite
expensive.  (There was discussion of this a year or two ago on
comp.lang.tcl.)

-- 
Bruce Stephens			Bruce.Stephens@MessagingDirect.com
MessagingDirect(UK) Ltd		<URL: http://www.MessagingDirect.com/ >

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Fernando Nasser]

"Eray Ozkural (exa)" wrote:
> 
> Fernando Nasser wrote:
> > If you have the Cygwin environment (see source.redhat.com) I am sure they work.
> > At least for debugging programs compiled with gcc.
> >
> > I believe gdb also runs on pure Windows machines, but I never used it.
> 
> They work MUCH BETTER on windows machines, something I don't quite
> understand. This seems to be related to performance flaws of tcl/tk.
> On the same machine source navigator works just like a native app
> on windows, but on linux the UI is so slow that you'd think it was
> written in Java. The problem is not with the X since I've very fast
> X11 apps (hardware accel ok)
> 
> Any ideas?
> 

I am not experiencing this here, so I cannot tell. 
My Linux and NT machines are identical twins from the same batch.

There can be anything... maybe the driver to the specific board on each OS?


-- 
Fernando Nasser
Red Hat Canada Ltd.                     E-Mail:  fnasser@redhat.com
2323 Yonge Street, Suite #300
Toronto, Ontario   M4P 2C9

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Eray Ozkural (exa)]

Bruce Stephens wrote:
> You might try explicitly undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS in
> src/tk/generic/tk.h.  In at least some linux X servers, this is quite
> expensive.  (There was discussion of this a year or two ago on
> comp.lang.tcl.)

Does this mean insight/sourcenav works very well on X servers
other than XFree86?

Thanks,

-- 
Eray (exa) Ozkural
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
e-mail: erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Fernando Nasser]

"Eray Ozkural (exa)" wrote:
> 
> Bruce Stephens wrote:
> > You might try explicitly undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS in
> > src/tk/generic/tk.h.  In at least some linux X servers, this is quite
> > expensive.  (There was discussion of this a year or two ago on
> > comp.lang.tcl.)
> 
> Does this mean insight/sourcenav works very well on X servers
> other than XFree86?
> 

It works very nicely on my XFree86's (several versions), as well on 
a Sparc Solaris and a NT 4.0.

Nobody seems to have noticed what you are experiencing.

Try it on a different system, with different video card (that uses a
different driver).


-- 
Fernando Nasser
Red Hat Canada Ltd.                     E-Mail:  fnasser@redhat.com
2323 Yonge Street, Suite #300
Toronto, Ontario   M4P 2C9

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Bruce Stephens]

"Eray Ozkural (exa)" <erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr> writes:

> Bruce Stephens wrote:
> > You might try explicitly undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS in
> > src/tk/generic/tk.h.  In at least some linux X servers, this is quite
> > expensive.  (There was discussion of this a year or two ago on
> > comp.lang.tcl.)
> 
> Does this mean insight/sourcenav works very well on X servers
> other than XFree86?

< http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=528799292 > suggests it might work
fine on XFree86, sometimes.

For what it's worth, both seem to work fine for me (XFree86 on i386
GNU/Linux).

I don't know the details, but it appears that X server configuration
and things may be critical---so some people might see a problem where
others don't, even when using very similar systems.

Try undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS and rebuilding.  It's not going to
affect usage of Insight, as far as I can see.

-- 
Bruce Stephens			Bruce.Stephens@MessagingDirect.com
MessagingDirect(UK) Ltd		<URL: http://www.MessagingDirect.com/ >

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Fernando Nasser]

Bruce Stephens wrote:
> 
> "Eray Ozkural (exa)" <erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr> writes:
> 
> > Bruce Stephens wrote:
> > > You might try explicitly undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS in
> > > src/tk/generic/tk.h.  In at least some linux X servers, this is quite
> > > expensive.  (There was discussion of this a year or two ago on
> > > comp.lang.tcl.)
> >
> > Does this mean insight/sourcenav works very well on X servers
> > other than XFree86?
> 
> < http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=528799292 > suggests it might work
> fine on XFree86, sometimes.
> 

Interesting.  Thanks.


> For what it's worth, both seem to work fine for me (XFree86 on i386
> GNU/Linux).
> 

I couldn't find anyone hit by this around here either.


> I don't know the details, but it appears that X server configuration
> and things may be critical---so some people might see a problem where
> others don't, even when using very similar systems.
> 

They don't seem to know what triggers it as well.

Maybe Eray should post his machine hardware and XFree86 configuration, but
this would be the wrong list anyway.  comp.lang.tcl  is the appropriate
forum.


> Try undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS and rebuilding.  It's not going to
> affect usage of Insight, as far as I can see.
> 

It centainly worth a try.

I wouldn't rule out the video card driver theory, although it may be
triggered by the above.  In any way, undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS
seems the first thing to try.



Thanks for the hint.

-- 
Fernando Nasser
Red Hat Canada Ltd.                     E-Mail:  fnasser@redhat.com
2323 Yonge Street, Suite #300
Toronto, Ontario   M4P 2C9

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Brian Stell]

Bruce Stephens wrote:

> You might try explicitly undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS in
> src/tk/generic/tk.h.  In at least some linux X servers, this is quite
> expensive.  (There was discussion of this a year or two ago on
> comp.lang.tcl.)

Wow, this is made a big improvement for me.

Pre this fix it took 6 seconds for *each* "next/step"
in the same file and 9 seconds if the program went into
a new file (I timed it). The green highlight moved very
quickly (<= 1sec) but the cursor stayed busy for 5+
seconds.

The same thing happened when I use the "Continue
to here" popup menu item: 1 sec to move the green
highlight and 5 seconds of busy cursor.

Now 6 seconds per step may not sound like much but
try stepping thru a few hundred instructions and it really
does slow one down.

Thanks

(Let me change hats now)
As an internationalization (i18n) engineer I must ask:

    Does this "fix" disable non-ascii input?

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Bruce Stephens]

bstell@netscape.com (Brian Stell) writes:

> Bruce Stephens wrote:
> 
> > You might try explicitly undefining TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS in
> > src/tk/generic/tk.h.  In at least some linux X servers, this is quite
> > expensive.  (There was discussion of this a year or two ago on
> > comp.lang.tcl.)
> 
> Wow, this is made a big improvement for me.

[...]

> (Let me change hats now)
> As an internationalization (i18n) engineer I must ask:
> 
>     Does this "fix" disable non-ascii input?

I don't think so.  I think the TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS is for supporting
languages which use special X input methods---specifically Japanese.
So there's probably some reduction in functionality, but I'd guess
many non-ASCII characters would continue to work OK.  (Work in the Tk
sense, anyway---I've no idea how much gdb works with non-ASCII
characters.)

Judging by the comments in comp.lang.tcl, I'm not sure how much this
was ever tested by the Tcl guys, so it's possible that it was broken
anyway.

-- 
Bruce Stephens			Bruce.Stephens@MessagingDirect.com
MessagingDirect(UK) Ltd		<URL: http://www.MessagingDirect.com/ >

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Eray Ozkural (exa)]

Fernando Nasser wrote:
> Maybe Eray should post his machine hardware and XFree86 configuration, but
> this would be the wrong list anyway.  comp.lang.tcl  is the appropriate
> forum.

I'm using xfree86 4 with nvidia riva tnt, on debian woody.

I mean, this is supposed to be really fast.

Did you really compare how sourcenav works on windows and on linux?
When I try it on the same machine, the GUI is pretty slow compared to
on windows. That is, the windows version is very smooth compared to
the linux version. I'm baffled.

-- 
Eray (exa) Ozkural
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
e-mail: erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Fernando Nasser]

"Eray Ozkural (exa)" wrote:
> 
> Fernando Nasser wrote:
> > Maybe Eray should post his machine hardware and XFree86 configuration, but
> > this would be the wrong list anyway.  comp.lang.tcl  is the appropriate
> > forum.
> 
> I'm using xfree86 4 with nvidia riva tnt, on debian woody.
> 
> I mean, this is supposed to be really fast.
> 
> Did you really compare how sourcenav works on windows and on linux?
> When I try it on the same machine, the GUI is pretty slow compared to
> on windows. That is, the windows version is very smooth compared to
> the linux version. I'm baffled.
> 

I have both screens in front of me, on twin machines (as I said,
absolutely identical, a few serial numbers apart).  I haven't felt 
any noticeable difference.

But I haven't measured.  I will try (one of these days) to actually
time Insight window operations on both machines.

However, if there is any difference, we won't know the cause as there
are several layer that are different.  The Tcl system dependent part,
the window systems, the operating systems.


-- 
Fernando Nasser
Red Hat Canada Ltd.                     E-Mail:  fnasser@redhat.com
2323 Yonge Street, Suite #300
Toronto, Ontario   M4P 2C9

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[bstell]

Besides the source window do you have any other
windows (stack/local variables/watch) open?

When I have any non-source window open it really
slows the ui down.

"Eray Ozkural (exa)" wrote:
> 
> Fernando Nasser wrote:
> > Maybe Eray should post his machine hardware and XFree86 configuration, but
> > this would be the wrong list anyway.  comp.lang.tcl  is the appropriate
> > forum.
> 
> I'm using xfree86 4 with nvidia riva tnt, on debian woody.
> 
> I mean, this is supposed to be really fast.
> 
> Did you really compare how sourcenav works on windows and on linux?
> When I try it on the same machine, the GUI is pretty slow compared to
> on windows. That is, the windows version is very smooth compared to
> the linux version. I'm baffled.
> 
> --
> Eray (exa) Ozkural
> Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
> e-mail: erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr
> www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Eray Ozkural]

bstell@ix.netcom.com wrote:

> Besides the source window do you have any other
> windows (stack/local variables/watch) open?
> 
> When I have any non-source window open it really
> slows the ui down.

I don't think it matters which windows are open. Even
when changing tabs in the editor is very slow. I think
it's really about the x input method thingie in tcl. I guess
I'll comment out that in my insight and sourcenav builds.

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Eray Ozkural]

On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 04:17:09AM +0200, Eray Ozkural wrote:
> It looks like uncommenting TK_USE_INPUT_METHODS didn't give a big
> performance boost. Perhaps tcl/tk works better on windows.. :?

No, it did make some dialogues and GUI events apparently faster.
It seems to have less overhead when doing GUI now, but still
the look&feel is not as good as on windows.

Thanks,


-- 
Eray (exa) Ozkural
Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara
e-mail: erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr
www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo

Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0

[Jim Ingham]

Eray,

The fact that on SOME versions of XFree86 using X Input methods really slows Tk down, particularly if there are lots of sub-windows, has been reported numerous times on the Tcl newsgroup.  One of the features for 8.4 is a runtime switch in Tk that can turn off the X Input method support - rather than compile-time as it now is...  It does not affect all versions of XFree86, however, and it doesn't affect most other X Servers.  Sounds like you drew a low card here - sigh.  Your best choice for now is to comment the defined for input methods out in the Tk sources, and rebuild...

Sorry...

Jim

On Saturday, November 11, 2000, at 03:14 PM, insight-digest-help@sources.redhat.com wrote:

> From: Eray Ozkural <erayo@cs.bilkent.edu.tr>
> Date: Sat Nov 11, 2000  12:38:52 PM US/Pacific
> To: bstell@ix.netcom.com
> Cc: insight@sourceware.cygnus.com
> Subject: Re: Insight 5.0 and GDB 5.0
> 
> bstell@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> 
> > Besides the source window do you have any other
> > windows (stack/local variables/watch) open?
> > 
> > When I have any non-source window open it really
> > slows the ui down.
> 
> I don't think it matters which windows are open. Even
> when changing tabs in the editor is very slow. I think
> it's really about the x input method thingie in tcl. I guess
> I'll comment out that in my insight and sourcenav builds.
> 
>