irc

irc

[David Pirotte]

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Hello,
Per,

Are you not hanging around the #kawa freenode irc channel? just connected and there
is 1 user only, who's not you :), and no other kawa users?

I find it quite nice to interact in real time, it makes things more friendly and for
quick quizz, wel, so much quicker! :)  wdyt? 

Cheers,
David

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Re: irc

[Per Bothner]

On 09/17/2015 12:30 PM, David Pirotte wrote:
> Hello,
> Per,
>
> Are you not hanging around the #kawa freenode irc channel? just connected and there
> is 1 user only, who's not you :), and no other kawa users?

I didn't set to the Kawa irc channel, and I never got in the habit of using
irc, skype, or similar.  (At one workplace we used text skype, so I would sometimes
have that up.)
>
> I find it quite nice to interact in real time, it makes things more friendly and for
> quick quizz, wel, so much quicker! :)  wdyt?

No objection in principle, if people were using it.  I do tend to get distracted
too easily (ooo - and intersting arcile on the web - must read it now), and
it's plausible irc might make that worse ...  But as long as it's not too busy
I guess it wouldn't be too bad  and if it gets too busy, that would be a nice problem
to have!
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: irc

[Jamison Hope]

On Sep 17, 2015, at 3:42 PM, Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> wrote:

> On 09/17/2015 12:30 PM, David Pirotte wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Per,
>> 
>> Are you not hanging around the #kawa freenode irc channel? just connected and there
>> is 1 user only, who's not you :), and no other kawa users?
> 
> I didn't set to the Kawa irc channel, and I never got in the habit of using
> irc, skype, or similar.  (At one workplace we used text skype, so I would sometimes
> have that up.)

Same here.  We have a Jabber server at work, but I almost never remember
to sign on.

>> 
>> I find it quite nice to interact in real time, it makes things more friendly and for
>> quick quizz, wel, so much quicker! :)  wdyt?
> 
> No objection in principle, if people were using it.  I do tend to get distracted
> too easily (ooo - and intersting arcile on the web - must read it now), and
> it's plausible irc might make that worse ...  But as long as it's not too busy
> I guess it wouldn't be too bad  and if it gets too busy, that would be a nice problem
> to have!

I'm willing to experiment with IRC again.  I try it out every 6 years or
so and last about 3 days before giving up again, mostly because I
haven't thought of anything to say.

Who originally set up #kawa?  ChanServ says it was registered in 2008.

--
Jamison Hope
The PTR Group
www.theptrgroup.com

Re: irc

[Damien MATTEI]

i will go to #kawa sometimes, remember me the '90 and the beginning of 
public internet...

Le 18/09/2015 21:44, Jamison Hope a écrit :
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 3:42 PM, Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> wrote:
>
>> On 09/17/2015 12:30 PM, David Pirotte wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> Per,
>>>
>>> Are you not hanging around the #kawa freenode irc channel? just connected and there
>>> is 1 user only, who's not you :), and no other kawa users?
>> I didn't set to the Kawa irc channel, and I never got in the habit of using
>> irc, skype, or similar.  (At one workplace we used text skype, so I would sometimes
>> have that up.)
> Same here.  We have a Jabber server at work, but I almost never remember
> to sign on.
>
>>> I find it quite nice to interact in real time, it makes things more friendly and for
>>> quick quizz, wel, so much quicker! :)  wdyt?
>> No objection in principle, if people were using it.  I do tend to get distracted
>> too easily (ooo - and intersting arcile on the web - must read it now), and
>> it's plausible irc might make that worse ...  But as long as it's not too busy
>> I guess it wouldn't be too bad  and if it gets too busy, that would be a nice problem
>> to have!
> I'm willing to experiment with IRC again.  I try it out every 6 years or
> so and last about 3 days before giving up again, mostly because I
> haven't thought of anything to say.
>
> Who originally set up #kawa?  ChanServ says it was registered in 2008.
>
> --
> Jamison Hope
> The PTR Group
> www.theptrgroup.com
>
>
>
>

Re: irc

[Felipe Bueno]

"I'm willing to experiment with IRC again.  I try it out every 6 years or
so and last about 3 days before giving up again"
:)
This pretty much sums up my experience with IRC for the last 10 years
or so... the only difference is that "I try it out every 2 years or so
and last about 1 or 2 days before giving up" heheh. But I really try
very hard to like it and to use it... it's such an useful and fun
tool. I don't know exactly why I give up.

Btw I am on #kawa right now and there's only one more person there
(mario-goulart) but I don't think he is reading the messages.

Felipe Bueno - https://www.keybase.io/felipebueno


2015-09-18 16:44 GMT-03:00 Jamison Hope <jrh@theptrgroup.com>:
>
> On Sep 17, 2015, at 3:42 PM, Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> wrote:
>
> > On 09/17/2015 12:30 PM, David Pirotte wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >> Per,
> >>
> >> Are you not hanging around the #kawa freenode irc channel? just connected and there
> >> is 1 user only, who's not you :), and no other kawa users?
> >
> > I didn't set to the Kawa irc channel, and I never got in the habit of using
> > irc, skype, or similar.  (At one workplace we used text skype, so I would sometimes
> > have that up.)
>
> Same here.  We have a Jabber server at work, but I almost never remember
> to sign on.
>
> >>
> >> I find it quite nice to interact in real time, it makes things more friendly and for
> >> quick quizz, wel, so much quicker! :)  wdyt?
> >
> > No objection in principle, if people were using it.  I do tend to get distracted
> > too easily (ooo - and intersting arcile on the web - must read it now), and
> > it's plausible irc might make that worse ...  But as long as it's not too busy
> > I guess it wouldn't be too bad  and if it gets too busy, that would be a nice problem
> > to have!
>
> I'm willing to experiment with IRC again.  I try it out every 6 years or
> so and last about 3 days before giving up again, mostly because I
> haven't thought of anything to say.
>
> Who originally set up #kawa?  ChanServ says it was registered in 2008.
>
> --
> Jamison Hope
> The PTR Group
> www.theptrgroup.com
>
>
>

Re: irc

[Per Bothner]

On 09/18/2015 02:13 PM, Felipe Bueno wrote:
> Btw I am on #kawa right now and there's only one more person there
> (mario-goulart) but I don't think he is reading the messages.

Well, I'm on right now.  So if anyone wants to chat ...
I'll try to keep a window up for at least a few days, to see how it goes.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: irc

[David Pirotte]

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Hello!

> Well, I'm on right now.  So if anyone wants to chat ...
> I'll try to keep a window up for at least a few days, to see how it goes.

Nice you gave it a new try: stay there for a while and let's invite kawa
developers, maintainers, advanced and not so advanced users, it really is a
fantastic tool to not only to learn but it gives 'incentives', imo

The absolute first thing I do, before reading email, and sometimes even before to
have a coffee is logging to #scheme, #guile, #guix, #clutter, [#clojure, #emacs to a
lesser extend, as needed] and now added #kawa, and always read the logs, first thing
in the morning [BRT, so big 'jet lag' with europe...

	#guile and #guix are logged [gnunet]:

		https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guile
		https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guix

	I never learned as much as by reading the logs and interacting with others
	on #guile and #guix

	good to mention that with experience, you also learn how to select what
	interest you to read/answer, not paying attention to what's not important to
	you ... 

I use emacs ERC mode, but for people not using emacs, xchat is a cool tool... and
probably tons of others... but I use emacs

Per,

Cool you try again! It is important developers, maintainers, advanced kawa users to
hang around and answer, when they can, if they are interested,  ... the idea is it
should not take much time, it should not be a 'distraction', but a tool to encourage
each other, quickly solve [small] problems, post links ... and if the quizz is too
'big' [requires to much time to answer on irc, then we suggest the quizer to post a
mail to the ML ...

I did not even try kawa yet, not a single line :) because I wanted to check #kawa
first, if their would be people there, willing to answer and get newbie up and
running ... if no #kawa, for me it is almost a dead end [I mean not sure I can
maintain interest, don't know yet, lt's see]

I'm a 'good' schemer by the way, or I should say good guiler, but close to zero
java, and pretending to remain a zero java guy :)  this said, I have to use/program
imagej for 1 of my customers, and till now I use clojure [because #clojure is
extremely active, and irc wise, people helped me there like crazy, thanks all of them
of course] ... but, I don't like clojure :)

so, i want to try kawa, with some help I should, if i'm not mistaken, 'import' any
java, any jar, and play the same way, I mean in better ways even, then what i can do
using clojure, is this reasonable assumption?

Cheers,
David




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Re: irc

[Per Bothner]

On 09/18/2015 03:41 PM, David Pirotte wrote:
> so, i want to try kawa, with some help I should, if i'm not mistaken, 'import' any
> java, any jar, and play the same way, I mean in better ways even, then what i can do
> using clojure, is this reasonable assumption?

I've been told that Kawa has better Java integration than Clojure.
Kawa makes it easy to extend Java classes, use annotations, parameterized types (to an extent).
If you define-simple-class you get a very straight-forward mapping to a Java class.
The colon syntax OBJ:PROPERTY first looks for a field PROPERTY in OBJ; and then
it automatically look for a getPROPERTY method.  Etc etc.

A big potential advantage is that with Kawa you just need the kawa.jar.  You don't
need to install and learn a new tool philosopy (i.e. leiningen) - which causes extra
startup slow-down.  Kawa starts up really fast.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/2df2rm/should_my_startup_attempt_to_use_abcl_in_a/

BTW I do recommend building Kawa from Subversion; the "released" jar is a bit old.
I'd like to make a new official release, but I'm in the middle of various changes.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: irc

[David Pirotte]

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> > so, i want to try kawa, with some help I should, if i'm not mistaken, 'import'
> > any java, any jar, and play the same way, I mean in better ways even, then what
> > i can do using clojure, is this reasonable assumption?
> 
> I've been told that Kawa has better Java integration than Clojure.
> Kawa makes it easy to extend Java classes, use annotations, parameterized types
> (to an extent). If you define-simple-class you get a very straight-forward mapping
> to a Java class. The colon syntax OBJ:PROPERTY first looks for a field PROPERTY in
> OBJ; and then it automatically look for a getPROPERTY method.  Etc etc.

great!

	now i need to read a tutorial on how to ... like i wrote in my last
	imagej/clojure email, as an example of a starting point...

> A big potential advantage is that with Kawa you just need the kawa.jar.  You don't
> need to install and learn a new tool philosopy (i.e. leiningen) - which causes
> extra startup slow-down.  Kawa starts up really fast.

That really totally got me off clojure! exactly, exactly what we don't want to do:
learning another extra 'tool', I totally agree with you and these folks on redit! We
want emacs, scheme, the autotool chain and git [bash, but these days i write my
scripts in scheme as well].


> https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/2df2rm/should_my_startup_attempt_to_use_abcl_in_a/

> BTW I do recommend building Kawa from Subversion; the "released" jar is a bit old.
> I'd like to make a new official release, but I'm in the middle of various changes.

Any git somewhere? I'm a good git user, no svn experience

Cheers,
David

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Re: irc

[Per Bothner]

On 09/18/2015 04:50 PM, David Pirotte wrote:
>> BTW I do recommend building Kawa from Subversion; the "released" jar is a bit old.
>> I'd like to make a new official release, but I'm in the middle of various changes.
>
> Any git somewhere? I'm a good git user, no svn experience

Read-only use of Svn is pretty trivial.  As described here:

http://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/Getting-Kawa.html

you just need to:

svn -q checkout svn://sourceware.org/svn/kawa/trunk kawa

To pull the latest, just do 'svn update' in the kawa directory.

Michel Vachon has a git clone here:
https://github.com/maoueh/kawa-fork

The plan is to migrate to git, hosted on savannah.gnu.org.
I haven't decided when.  One question is to do the
migration in conjunction with a release, or only do the
git swicj-over and just update the Gett-Kawa.html web page.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: irc

[Matthieu Vachon]

Ah ah first time I'm renamed as a Michel :D It's Matthieu but no
offense taken, just funny lol.

As for the git mirror, it's an almost up-to-date mirror (currently
sync up to revision 8596, current svn trunk revision is 8599). This is
unfortunately not an automatic operation but bumping it to the latest
revision is pretty easy.

Will update it from time to time.

Regards,
Michel (lol joking, it's Matt, sorry couldn't resist :))

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 8:15 PM Per Bothner <per@bothner.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 09/18/2015 04:50 PM, David Pirotte wrote:
> >> BTW I do recommend building Kawa from Subversion; the "released" jar is a bit old.
> >> I'd like to make a new official release, but I'm in the middle of various changes.
> >
> > Any git somewhere? I'm a good git user, no svn experience
>
> Read-only use of Svn is pretty trivial.  As described here:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/kawa/Getting-Kawa.html
>
> you just need to:
>
> svn -q checkout svn://sourceware.org/svn/kawa/trunk kawa
>
> To pull the latest, just do 'svn update' in the kawa directory.
>
> Michel Vachon has a git clone here:
> https://github.com/maoueh/kawa-fork
>
> The plan is to migrate to git, hosted on savannah.gnu.org.
> I haven't decided when.  One question is to do the
> migration in conjunction with a release, or only do the
> git swicj-over and just update the Gett-Kawa.html web page.
> --
>         --Per Bothner
> per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/

Re: irc

[Per Bothner]

On 09/18/2015 10:01 PM, Matthieu Vachon wrote:
> Ah ah first time I'm renamed as a Michel :D It's Matthieu but no
> offense taken, just funny lol.

My apologies.  I've been working with a mikel [evins] for my JavaOne
presentation, so maybe that is why I screwed up your name.
-- 
	--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com   http://per.bothner.com/