From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from crocodile.elm.relay.mailchannels.net (crocodile.elm.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.212.45]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F0ED3858D35 for ; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 02:51:38 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 6F0ED3858D35 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=gotplt.org Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gotplt.org X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC19121930; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 02:51:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a304.dreamhost.com (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 7554221A12; Tue, 1 Feb 2022 02:51:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a304.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.96.96.39 (trex/6.4.3); Tue, 01 Feb 2022 02:51:36 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-White-Eyes: 5542c1705184d0fe_1643683896827_2822618613 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1643683896827:566516337 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1643683896827 Received: from [192.168.1.174] (unknown [1.186.122.255]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: siddhesh@gotplt.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a304.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4JnqFb3kz4z27; Mon, 31 Jan 2022 18:51:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gotplt.org; s=gotplt.org; t=1643683896; bh=fJ3i6EPD40wSl1vwc5CXnpLrgxI=; h=Date:Subject:To:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=gH9IXmoWuYghkDJRwg2q0TBcjrRVReO8Lgqo72EHMvPOZEVa+IFXmY02nn0e6JVxq /JeELXZBgFxPMgJF0DhcP5ftRIO53fjjGijn/XbMTU9QtT5jY73CqvoaMVqtnH3a9t O/MIzbhB/hQu83hMBRObQBxU9jHHkQvNb/qvWyBw= Message-ID: <0e2f8558-15c2-1084-b630-8905e5198095@gotplt.org> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2022 08:21:26 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.4.0 Subject: Re: Rename "master" branch to "main" for glibc 2.35 release. Content-Language: en-US To: Adhemerval Zanella , Carlos O'Donell , libc-alpha , Andreas Schwab , Joseph Myers , Paul Eggert , Florian Weimer , DJ Delorie , "Ryan S. Arnold" , Jakub Jelinek , Maxim Kuvyrkov References: <77c04408-2508-350e-2f8e-db070e8d35f6@redhat.com> <91d9a786-d621-a997-39e0-147389c38686@linaro.org> From: Siddhesh Poyarekar In-Reply-To: <91d9a786-d621-a997-39e0-147389c38686@linaro.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3030.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, KAM_MANYTO, NICE_REPLY_A, RCVD_IN_BARRACUDACENTRAL, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_SBL, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: libc-alpha@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Libc-alpha mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2022 02:51:40 -0000 On 01/02/2022 02:54, Adhemerval Zanella wrote: > Is there really an issue? Because I tend to agree with D.J where it seems > to be more a ideological view from a very narrow group from a specific > geography than a broad discussion that fits in a multicultural community > such ours. It's less ideology and more sensitivity IMO; in this specific case of renaming things I've seen people with aligned ideologies end up on opposite sides because of how much importance they put to the token gesture. My argument is that because we're blind to the issue and how it's perceived by the target communities (i.e. African/African-Americans), our natural inclination would be to trivialize it, which may be to our peril. > I give you that it seems to be the trend in tech industry to use such > language (as indicated by Carlos original email) but I personally thing it > will most likely be innocuous to improve inclusiveness (there are far more > pertinent problems such as mentorship as you posed). I saw from our > community experience that important changes such as a different leadership > is a much more effective way to bring new contributors, so I tend to see > this whole discussion as huge waste of effort and energy. > > But personally I don't really care about the branch name, I just think that > if the idea is to improve the community inclusiveness, hinted by the original > motivation, there are more effective ways to do so. I'm inclined to agree, but if someone sees value in renaming (and if they're willing to do the work), I don't want to be in the way and if possible, help it along so that it causes minimal inconvenience. If there's a net gain (e.g. if we end up with branch naming that is actually more descriptive, e.g. the "dev" that H J suggested) then it's even better. Also since it's pretty much the standard in the tech industry now, opposing it would cause us more harm than good for a trivial reason. As we say here in hindi, "khaya piya kuch nahi, glass toda baara aana" (We didn't eat or drink anything but had to pay for the glass we broke). Siddhesh