From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x734.google.com (mail-qk1-x734.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::734]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 554103857007 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 13:41:35 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 554103857007 Received: by mail-qk1-x734.google.com with SMTP id r22so22116218qke.13 for ; Wed, 01 Jul 2020 06:41:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:to:references:from:autocrypt:subject:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZMcDA/KDG3aW7ieV5CwvrS3V/Ln1QtKbObzAP79KGpg=; b=n/e3yT8T/C3xSLUb32FKwxZFU9YY9SbFdm5tOqa/itDtzaHOQ05qCbyl1G5LsUeOAF GIjR3n+t+TYo5Fm45EQVWK4k8hM8h7daQJnkQQk+QvUupgHPqXWzCIxiHdI66kFcdkPG JO0sb5FBJ4lea9NnlbJgBShVlkUqZ8F0FWrZ1JlqQqbrj5fiBnYajOfFnx55roNOM+Fj /zj+I02346PAbWrzAV/ZiH2YeP9cJ8Sp6ovqVxFi1zaGDClBjtd61jrep1m71fbRu6gr cQIyCmTKWRcZFeW6SLDA++Fmp4FKhDbXFKsAYcFzQw7vaDYvqFiUrRfLkDmJ5DYYjAZq tojg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531jTRZBzXtGUTdE6nzTCprRMtdiZxLBIrwjhb95Y3u9B6q5ZJ/H MmJkeFyb8TOWJ65YbqFUxFXN1rGTjWs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyH39uA2LtS3HLUrBu9mGLt6mJz2EVY+6CR/pj3+ylaSH1YlnJpf8wnSQacKfoyoFHEf7F/aw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1369:: with SMTP id d9mr24928652qkl.419.1593610894556; Wed, 01 Jul 2020 06:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([177.194.48.209]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id n64sm5655861qke.77.2020.07.01.06.41.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 01 Jul 2020 06:41:33 -0700 (PDT) To: Carlos O'Donell , libc-alpha@sourceware.org References: <340a8ba6-889a-1b9b-cea8-20af5b79e2a6@linaro.org> From: Adhemerval Zanella Autocrypt: addr=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFcVGkoBEADiQU2x/cBBmAVf5C2d1xgz6zCnlCefbqaflUBw4hB/bEME40QsrVzWZ5Nq 8kxkEczZzAOKkkvv4pRVLlLn/zDtFXhlcvQRJ3yFMGqzBjofucOrmdYkOGo0uCaoJKPT186L NWp53SACXguFJpnw4ODI64ziInzXQs/rUJqrFoVIlrPDmNv/LUv1OVPKz20ETjgfpg8MNwG6 iMizMefCl+RbtXbIEZ3TE/IaDT/jcOirjv96lBKrc/pAL0h/O71Kwbbp43fimW80GhjiaN2y WGByepnkAVP7FyNarhdDpJhoDmUk9yfwNuIuESaCQtfd3vgKKuo6grcKZ8bHy7IXX1XJj2X/ BgRVhVgMHAnDPFIkXtP+SiarkUaLjGzCz7XkUn4XAGDskBNfbizFqYUQCaL2FdbW3DeZqNIa nSzKAZK7Dm9+0VVSRZXP89w71Y7JUV56xL/PlOE+YKKFdEw+gQjQi0e+DZILAtFjJLoCrkEX w4LluMhYX/X8XP6/C3xW0yOZhvHYyn72sV4yJ1uyc/qz3OY32CRy+bwPzAMAkhdwcORA3JPb kPTlimhQqVgvca8m+MQ/JFZ6D+K7QPyvEv7bQ7M+IzFmTkOCwCJ3xqOD6GjX3aphk8Sr0dq3 4Awlf5xFDAG8dn8Uuutb7naGBd/fEv6t8dfkNyzj6yvc4jpVxwARAQABtElBZGhlbWVydmFs IFphbmVsbGEgTmV0dG8gKExpbmFybyBWUE4gS2V5KSA8YWRoZW1lcnZhbC56YW5lbGxhQGxp bmFyby5vcmc+iQI3BBMBCAAhBQJXFRpKAhsDBQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYCAwEAAh4BAheAAAoJ EKqx7BSnlIjv0e8P/1YOYoNkvJ+AJcNUaM5a2SA9oAKjSJ/M/EN4Id5Ow41ZJS4lUA0apSXW NjQg3VeVc2RiHab2LIB4MxdJhaWTuzfLkYnBeoy4u6njYcaoSwf3g9dSsvsl3mhtuzm6aXFH /Qsauav77enJh99tI4T+58rp0EuLhDsQbnBic/ukYNv7sQV8dy9KxA54yLnYUFqH6pfH8Lly sTVAMyi5Fg5O5/hVV+Z0Kpr+ZocC1YFJkTsNLAW5EIYSP9ftniqaVsim7MNmodv/zqK0IyDB GLLH1kjhvb5+6ySGlWbMTomt/or/uvMgulz0bRS+LUyOmlfXDdT+t38VPKBBVwFMarNuREU2 69M3a3jdTfScboDd2ck1u7l+QbaGoHZQ8ZNUrzgObltjohiIsazqkgYDQzXIMrD9H19E+8fw kCNUlXxjEgH/Kg8DlpoYJXSJCX0fjMWfXywL6ZXc2xyG/hbl5hvsLNmqDpLpc1CfKcA0BkK+ k8R57fr91mTCppSwwKJYO9T+8J+o4ho/CJnK/jBy1pWKMYJPvvrpdBCWq3MfzVpXYdahRKHI ypk8m4QlRlbOXWJ3TDd/SKNfSSrWgwRSg7XCjSlR7PNzNFXTULLB34sZhjrN6Q8NQZsZnMNs TX8nlGOVrKolnQPjKCLwCyu8PhllU8OwbSMKskcD1PSkG6h3r0AquQINBFcVGkoBEACgAdbR Ck+fsfOVwT8zowMiL3l9a2DP3Eeak23ifdZG+8Avb/SImpv0UMSbRfnw/N81IWwlbjkjbGTu oT37iZHLRwYUFmA8fZX0wNDNKQUUTjN6XalJmvhdz9l71H3WnE0wneEM5ahu5V1L1utUWTyh VUwzX1lwJeV3vyrNgI1kYOaeuNVvq7npNR6t6XxEpqPsNc6O77I12XELic2+36YibyqlTJIQ V1SZEbIy26AbC2zH9WqaKyGyQnr/IPbTJ2Lv0dM3RaXoVf+CeK7gB2B+w1hZummD21c1Laua +VIMPCUQ+EM8W9EtX+0iJXxI+wsztLT6vltQcm+5Q7tY+HFUucizJkAOAz98YFucwKefbkTp eKvCfCwiM1bGatZEFFKIlvJ2QNMQNiUrqJBlW9nZp/k7pbG3oStOjvawD9ZbP9e0fnlWJIsj 6c7pX354Yi7kxIk/6gREidHLLqEb/otuwt1aoMPg97iUgDV5mlNef77lWE8vxmlY0FBWIXuZ yv0XYxf1WF6dRizwFFbxvUZzIJp3spAao7jLsQj1DbD2s5+S1BW09A0mI/1DjB6EhNN+4bDB SJCOv/ReK3tFJXuj/HbyDrOdoMt8aIFbe7YFLEExHpSk+HgN05Lg5TyTro8oW7TSMTk+8a5M kzaH4UGXTTBDP/g5cfL3RFPl79ubXwARAQABiQIfBBgBCAAJBQJXFRpKAhsMAAoJEKqx7BSn lIjvI/8P/jg0jl4Tbvg3B5kT6PxJOXHYu9OoyaHLcay6Cd+ZrOd1VQQCbOcgLFbf4Yr+rE9l mYsY67AUgq2QKmVVbn9pjvGsEaz8UmfDnz5epUhDxC6yRRvY4hreMXZhPZ1pbMa6A0a/WOSt AgFj5V6Z4dXGTM/lNManr0HjXxbUYv2WfbNt3/07Db9T+GZkpUotC6iknsTA4rJi6u2ls0W9 1UIvW4o01vb4nZRCj4rni0g6eWoQCGoVDk/xFfy7ZliR5B+3Z3EWRJcQskip/QAHjbLa3pml xAZ484fVxgeESOoaeC9TiBIp0NfH8akWOI0HpBCiBD5xaCTvR7ujUWMvhsX2n881r/hNlR9g fcE6q00qHSPAEgGr1bnFv74/1vbKtjeXLCcRKk3Ulw0bY1OoDxWQr86T2fZGJ/HIZuVVBf3+ gaYJF92GXFynHnea14nFFuFgOni0Mi1zDxYH/8yGGBXvo14KWd8JOW0NJPaCDFJkdS5hu0VY 7vJwKcyHJGxsCLU+Et0mryX8qZwqibJIzu7kUJQdQDljbRPDFd/xmGUFCQiQAncSilYOcxNU EMVCXPAQTteqkvA+gNqSaK1NM9tY0eQ4iJpo+aoX8HAcn4sZzt2pfUB9vQMTBJ2d4+m/qO6+ cFTAceXmIoFsN8+gFN3i8Is3u12u8xGudcBPvpoy4OoG Subject: Re: Rename "master" branch to "main"? Message-ID: <13984439-de74-9de1-1c2a-49535edd80a6@linaro.org> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 10:41:32 -0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: libc-alpha@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Libc-alpha mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2020 13:41:37 -0000 On 01/07/2020 09:49, Carlos O'Donell wrote: > On 7/1/20 8:29 AM, Adhemerval Zanella via Libc-alpha wrote: >> On 30/06/2020 19:59, DJ Delorie via Libc-alpha wrote: >>> "Carlos O'Donell via Libc-alpha" writes: >>>> My proposal would be to rename the development and current release branch: >>>> >>>> * master -> main >>>> >>>> * release/2.32/master -> release/2.32/main >>> >>> I will pose the unpopular opinion that the cost of this change[1] is >>> higher than the value of the change. The word "master" has many >>> meanings, and even in this case the context (and thus meaning) has >>> changed over time. >> >> I tend to agree with you and this 'master' meaning is even more nebulous >> in other languages context (on portuguese, for instance, its direct >> translation is 'mestre' which is does not have the same historical baggage >> as in english, the derogatory meaning is more associated with 'senhor' >> which directly translate to 'mister' or 'lord'). > > In the context of git, the term "master" was taken from bitkeeper, and > there it used as a master/slave context for repositories. The irony is that > git is a dvcs, there is no "master" repository in the context of the design > of the framework. And this is example of connotation lost in history, the 'master' here has even less connection of its original meaning. > >> Since we use "master" in the adjective case (master >>> branch), and don't use the word "slave" anywhere (we use >>> master/release), IMHO this is a case where we've gone too far down the >>> slippery slope and are making a change for the sake of looking good and >>> not for the sake of actually improving anything. Our efforts to >>> *actually* be inclusive have been far more useful and meaningful than >>> any efforts to just *appear* inclusive, and we should continue to apply >>> our efforts in that manner, such as responding more timely to new people >>> on the mailing list and IRC, or reviewing patches. >> >> Totally agree, the pragmatic gain with this chance does not address or >> improve any of the points you noted. A program of active mentoring, for >> instance, would be way more effective (just to give an example). > > We should do *both*! > > I have a mentoring program that I'm running within Red Hat to train an > additional person in glibc development, and I think it's going well. > > If the internal mentoring goes well I will extend it to external mentoring > in 2021 for new developers on an annual basis. This is a excellent initiative and I glad to help if possible. But I still doubtful that playing with technological terms still yield any pragmatic change here. > >>> If we want to rename the master branch to a more meaningful name, there >>> are far more meaningful choices than "main". "Trunk" goes with the >>> "branch" metaphor. How about "development"? We have an opportunity to >>> pick something precise and obvious, let's not waste it by blindly >>> following others. >> >> I am still doubtful if we should really change the branch name. > > The branch renaming is a non-recurring engineering cost for us to > transition. It has no ongoing cost, unlike a mentoring program, which has > a sustained cost forever. Thus the cost of the rename is minor compared > to the cost of the mentoring project. > > We have at least two instances of identified problematic language in the > source repository. At the end of the day, for me, it's just a search and > replace away from being fixed. I don't care what we call it. I do care > that a group of people have asked us to change it. > > I'm not in a position to judge anyone's feelings, but I am in a position > to act and make others feel more included with a change in branch name. > I agree this is minor issue and might just be an just an annoyance for some users (that might need to adapt some tools or scripts). And I don't want to delve into in the personal reasons someone asked for this change (it is a can of worm that can derail this discussion). My point is just that although this change has zero cost pragmatically it will most likely has zero outcome. In fact in with current turbulent ideological clash worldwide I see this kind of change as more alienating than beneficial.