From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from cheddar.halon.org.uk (cheddar.halon.org.uk [93.93.131.118]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D41443858D37 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2023 14:01:38 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org D41443858D37 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=wookware.org Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=wookware.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wookware.org; s=cheddar; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References :Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:X-Debbugs-Cc; bh=JUKv102la7yiCa16Ifdcn4kY+2+bje5cO2qwmCmdKrw=; b=Da5FsF7IRwpfzpGgjWyoQupCiH 8RyjqbOFCorQTrfXK3/v4R2SE4suYnuVVHSf5l4T/V3yRBxOz8P8J4z/mpnmOSb56MOQt/YrREsOY bHnf/zMiK4VIhzL+Z77FPuhFQPB3Wx9oFRSKlrmehMetX06x7cG/l4Lt/ukIFdGmyJebqyykD0RnT SlcIM+vYUNc0Z31CbzCz3sLogMrI/A21n9baAwUTlGznu8yPqExqHBvQOiOdB49tvNoKR+i1i+hRQ yLgbYaiyj+nriAL+ZSMA28F5tFQC/bvKkZx2RuaZQm43hKyJaTuWxNu7tU/pHONCPUFT+Za8IWa0d jWGpkmdA==; Received: from wookey by cheddar.halon.org.uk with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pY5yZ-0006Kr-75; Fri, 03 Mar 2023 14:01:35 +0000 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2023 14:01:35 +0000 From: Wookey To: Paul Eggert Cc: Bruno Haible , "Richard W.M. Jones" , Demi Marie Obenour , Eric Blake , Sam James , Carlos O'Donell via Libc-alpha , autoconf@gnu.org, c-std-porting@lists.linux.dev, Zack Weinberg , David Seifert , Gentoo Toolchain , Arsen =?utf-8?Q?Arsenovi=C4=87?= , dueno@redhat.com, Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=2E_Berrang=E9?= Subject: Re: On time64 and Large File Support Message-ID: <20230303140135.GX12440@mail.wookware.org> References: <7253e4c5-0f36-e725-f180-624f8887bf08@cs.ucla.edu> <20230302110244.GK7636@redhat.com> <4158136.ciBtUerH68@nimes> <20230303033045.GO12440@mail.wookware.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="i6UfSqW8aw8u8VxJ" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Organization: Wookware User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,KAM_LOTSOFHASH,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: --i6UfSqW8aw8u8VxJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2023-03-02 21:50 -0800, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 3/2/23 19:30, Wookey wrote: > > Gnulib automatically changing the ABI for packages that use it > > (and have LFS already enabled) is deeply unhelpful... > This change to Gnulib was reverted in December[1] and that propagated into > bleeding-edge GnuTLS last month[2]. So if I understand things correctly t= he > next GnuTLS release will go back to the old way of doing things, OK. gnulib doesn't seem to have releases as such (last release v0.1 9 years ago), and is normally used embedded in the upstream source like autotools (right?). What is a good test for whether a package/upstream is affected by this 'gnulib might have turned 64-bit time' issue? Is there an embedded gnulib version one can check, or does one have to look at dates of the m4/year2038.m4 and m4/largefile.m4 files in the source? I've not properly analysed this yet but presumably the problem arises if yo= u have m4/largefile.m4 and m4/year2038.m4 from between 2012-07-02 and 2022-12-25. https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dgnulib.git;a=3Dhistory;f=3Dm4/larg= efile.m4;hb=3Db9bf95fd0a6ab666b484b1e224321664f051f7fa https://git.savannah.gnu.org/gitweb/?p=3Dgnulib.git;a=3Dhistory;f=3Dm4/year= 2038.m4;h=3D2e4427e6fac10550c99748abebf31b61e6afda2b;hb=3Db9bf95fd0a6ab666b= 484b1e224321664f051f7fa https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/gnulib.git/log/m4/largefile.m4?h=3Dstable= -202301 > which will tempt the 32-bit time_t rearguard to fall back into > "Let's not worry about 2038" mode. Up to a point. I think enough people are taking notice now that those who care will be getting at least the core of this transition done this year. (Althought there will always be ancient bits of unmaintained software that don't get fixed until it actually breaks in 2038). > However this is just one package. We'll likely see similar issues with ot= her > packages, independently of whether they use Gnulib, and independently of > whether the built packages are not supposed to be used after the year 203= 8. Yep. I noticed tar changing in debian (which may not involve any changing external interfaces so is hopefully OK, but I'm not sure the maintainers really understood what they should be checking before flicking the switch) https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D1026204 This will be the normal case (upstream see a test failure and just enable the thing that makes the test work without necessarily understanding that they are/might-be part of a chain of ABI changes). > So this incident is a warning siren for the 32-bit time_t community. It's= no > time to relax. >=20 > [1]: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/gnulib.git/commit/?id=3D7c7c8a519f= 3892f6f5b30a1c6b22796ab314a45c > [2]: https://gitlab.com/gnutls/gnutls/-/commit/9622d7201e1d73d217c18802e1= d435ba3404adb3 I made this wiki page for Debian's transition (which still needs a proper community discussion to agree a plan - I'm currently trying to collect the info needed for that discussion to be productive): https://wiki.debian.org/ReleaseGoals/64bit-time I will update it with this gnulib info once I understand it properly. Wookey --=20 Principal hats: Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/ --i6UfSqW8aw8u8VxJ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEER4nvI8Pe/wVWh5yq+4YyUahvnkcFAmQB/bkACgkQ+4YyUahv nkftmQ//fywTq7jxr1etppRyrY19rlVFPS24zLtjfPot9FhbASV8qy8X9AY3Jn2t vLdAUkGagUFGJf2O5UKNjrCrxTkfyZ3W5OGMrYHKS7TvaiRclGuviuRp7R4dEyht 0NlAxP9xm89fvZkVgu1IFRbeDndhKaXodOnfnaPK8Im0s2HDWVhsAO1u/jlcaU2y gwzk1/dQJ+10+wLu+h1WqOpjzE35SlBuw74eu9ZgCLDKm3OOyTyKDTEMkyiARWpz cJilx2T0tSk1BrOXokBhILBl7fh4LpUoErVkSTvoKJb00Qbc82H2HSoT93lC/AM+ safnPsYHJ9CrACSWW5+h22IPtsWaLq2k/a8I3d5372+AmEEMByPF4O7KHXB0wEeP V2a7W8QkaN1e1g04oSa616FFhVeTQ6Y6Nhvc9/XUTuhGqtVmtardtz6+25pTfmYa V+xxz+UrQr1ioz1ZQJ0LiAcGqyjGB0BjBCtwJ/KQwd9DcYw9v/b2cI5wSrOc9ysQ bLDDySiF5efDVXDgbMpU6c8Nf1qxCVP2C+0ili5fVJPktGQcUCCVpeL6rmPlTe69 DxXG2eIbVIC0jpbmFQyi586U4tSg4X9HrizO39jhZbqQb/+sm8hn3AQuDq9kTzFP rG43/H/j0He/WQiab1E9p1Rfba3YHE8C3sLHFSSpL13E0swYr6I= =HCrN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --i6UfSqW8aw8u8VxJ--