From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 116191 invoked by alias); 8 May 2018 01:28:50 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-alpha-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-alpha-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 116178 invoked by uid 89); 8 May 2018 01:28:49 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-0.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=no version=3.3.2 spammy=HX-Received:sk:y11-v6m, rights X-HELO: mail-qt0-f195.google.com X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=fM0tuqbt/N90zXDjqw2G11AMZNg6lFrn0fBz2RhlQ0E=; b=VURh19fESg+kNR0lbmDP8w0CZKETerZoAWGe2JqvxroMS1J77G8yP/XuWTyLQ16Cpt bOw5T0uyBA/tA+76s35h4guUWtuNJ8tUO3nmpGSXLjRiOa24xHKoBSBj3ZpR8RisEoZL 2jCHuoEGnzbSGV/XxnbWRa0w11JRy8cqmcEqRsqT+JJCZpg6p6mn11vpp4WQh8lAgq99 AxCu53LC4MOrr6eHpfCh3Ko6wpdQBIt8NzZnPbv0V7DEW/AuFyrZHGZ3TczgmIGsdD5j nbevVbZmT6Oq3V14mGJLo9qoCekhXLwJ1GI+KN+hD2g+fGWFp3lrHa9+mtldEjzdBwlD ji9A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tCoMKu5CJzRrlwEn/5rQSzqjegMqNxYIwK1dWJoCBoCpWsP1FVt Jg786TKm5axgdKBrXT0az4eXyoj6LBA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZpMsMRE9wMi4b6mR+ppEqQG0z6a6vrN1U6rJIT2clFmSFgPUfG32xPlv2SPH6GTOfTELjxQmw== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:324b:: with SMTP id y11-v6mr35211310qta.141.1525742926434; Mon, 07 May 2018 18:28:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: delete abortion joke To: Don Barry , libc-alpha@sourceware.org References: <56f702bc-8cf9-712d-a913-ae3fb72bdff3@sirtf.com> From: Carlos O'Donell Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <2e5399de-4340-2a8f-0c0c-2337e584d1de@redhat.com> Date: Tue, 08 May 2018 01:28:00 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56f702bc-8cf9-712d-a913-ae3fb72bdff3@sirtf.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SW-Source: 2018-05/txt/msg00216.txt.bz2 On 05/07/2018 08:46 PM, Don Barry wrote: > As to the language of "safe spaces" and "triggering" that have been used > to float the idea of an expropriation (or failing that, a neutering of > the role of RMS), that's plainly political cover, chaff to obscure the > hostility to RMS and the FSF. Identity politics, in alliance with > postmodernism, has a long right-wing history, promoted deeply by the > Democratic party, to weaken actual "left" thought. In reality, what is > being proposed is the compartmentalizing of people's prejudices as a > social good, including prejudices against the founding principles of the > GNU projects, by declaring any mention of those principles, or even > statements vaguely in line with them, "triggering" and thus to be > expunged. Richard's role is not neutered. He is the GNU Project leader. The point being made is that GNU package maintainers have independence to implement what is required, and be trusted by Richard when their input is overwhelmingly negative regarding the joke aspect of the text. He appointed us after all, and trusted us with the project. I am a GNU package maintainer for the GNU C Library, and I support the FSF, but I do not agree that this text is the best way to support getting our message across. There have been 3 GNU package maintainers who publicly said they did not like the joke, and only 1 (Alexandre Oliva) who wanted the joke kept. If you want democracy with the FSF, that's: 3 - Yay (for removal) 1 - Nay 5 - Abstain There are 9 (10 if you count Roland) GNU package maintainers for glibc. Do we remove the joke? There is no GNU policy for conflict between GNU package maintainers. The GNU package maintainers need to discuss issues among themselves. As of today we are still discussing the issue. > What does it say when a certain layer declares unacceptable the > elementary and even rather banal defense of rights like abortion through > satire which is so trivial that it hardly requires a defense? There > isn't the slightest progressive content in their criticisms. It is > unashamedly and unabashedly right-wing. You have grouped together all responses into one, because you had to, because to respond to each of the authors on this thread would take too long for you to do effectively. I understand that. However, each author articulated a slightly different point. However, what you miss is that there are serious patches, to turn the joke into a whole info section talking about censorship, but Richard has stated that the joke is better, despite the objections. My position as a GNU package maintainer for glibc is that satire is too complicated to use across all of the cultures that use GNU software, we should speak plainly instead and talk clearly about the issues at hand. Why is one abortion joke better than a whole chapter on censorship that more people can understand? That's what I don't understand. -- Cheers, Carlos.