From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from dragonfly.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (dragonfly.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.51]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AC713857422 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 03:29:20 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 sourceware.org 6AC713857422 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=gotplt.org Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gotplt.org X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15E30780AF0; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 03:29:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-17-81.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.17.81]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 907D9781314; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 03:29:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.96.17.81 (trex/6.3.3); Fri, 02 Jul 2021 03:29:18 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Hook-Exultant: 017f09ad2131bfc6_1625196558874_352197409 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1625196558874:2243753357 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1625196558874 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490F3897E3; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 03:29:18 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=gotplt.org; h=subject:to :references:from:message-id:date:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=gotplt.org; bh=YmmvL5 khp6NnMyYcHcFAXNludXE=; b=JrqJL+1ZKtCtVomTZv50Zk0ZfHf/O+poExwJo+ qZI0xBmvn3F5c5nMgpeE/dozU4Qr6yVlkywWhISDF+Iaqg8HOttYeTrGpNFaESW2 QfQS5CciFpXn1FNN9A3TWMtYSmgEi7HVaRamrP7EdRg7CGcZtLzIkwmOPHvpw4lu Ov8q4= Received: from [192.168.1.136] (unknown [1.186.101.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: siddhesh@gotplt.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a42.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 66711897DE; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 03:29:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: Seeking input from developers: glibc copyright assignment policy. To: "Bradley M. Kuhn" , libc-alpha@sourceware.org References: <877dibhvbz.fsf@ebb.org> <87eechbzig.fsf@ebb.org> X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a42 From: Siddhesh Poyarekar Message-ID: <5f3dcd13-f367-47ba-9dc9-12852bba1c18@gotplt.org> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 08:59:10 +0530 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87eechbzig.fsf@ebb.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3029.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, NICE_REPLY_A, RCVD_IN_BARRACUDACENTRAL, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: libc-alpha@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Libc-alpha mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 03:29:23 -0000 On 7/2/21 1:03 AM, Bradley M. Kuhn wrote: > Keep in mind that the copyright assignment/disclaimer arrangements have= many > forms and structures; IIUC, most can be revoked. Furthermore, I note t= hat > the deadline day for input on this momentous change is nearing its end,= and > there are no statements on this thread from the well-known major employ= ers > involved in glibc about what their intended copyright policy if the FSF > copyright assignment mandate is lifted. For commercial distribution vendors**, I suspect it is not as easy a=20 decision to withdraw copyright assignment since their contribution to=20 GNU goes beyond gcc and glibc. For hardware vendors (who form the other=20 large contingent of contributors) maybe it's not as hard a decision, but=20 it still involves getting legal to evaluate the change and initiate the=20 process so I'm not entirely sure given that nobody has actually moved=20 yet AFAICT. > Absent assurances and more information, we must assume the worst case: = that > the all new copyrights are owned by the contributors' employers as soon= as > the copyright assignment mandate is lifted. But for that their assignment has to be terminated, no? If nobody has=20 moved to do that, the worst case assumption ought to be a little more=20 benign, i.e. companies start evaluating and withdrawing their=20 assignments and the change happens more slowly over the coming months/yea= rs. Regardless of that, I reckon the FSF will always have enough of a=20 copyright stake to allow enforcing copyleft. The glibc code base has=20 legally significant artifacts at least from the early 90s that have=20 survived to this date; that's 30 years. > I suppose it's possible that companies who contribute to glibc have als= o > faced frivolous copyright claims on FOSS. (However, such incidents are > extremely rare, though =E2=80=94 and, I'm admittedly wondering if you'r= e referencing > the same widely exaggerated tale that I'm thinking of.) Regardless, I = think > it's a moot point. Such a situation doesn't imply those companies will > later have the goal of defending the rights of users under copyleft. I= f > relevant at all, IMO, it cuts the other way: those companies may seek > copyrights for escalation/counter-claims against any enforcement action > (even a legitimate one brought to defend users' rights). Note that, wh= en /me nods. Based on my limited knowledge from asking around, it doesn't=20 look like anybody has moved to terminate their assignments.=20 Unfortunately I am not privy to the assignment file or the details of=20 contracts with the FSF so I don't know for sure. Siddhesh ** I am not speaking for my employer (Red Hat) and this is my personal=20 impression based on my understanding of how distributions work.