From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp-out1.suse.de (smtp-out1.suse.de [IPv6:2a07:de40:b251:101:10:150:64:1]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F067C3858401; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:01:12 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org F067C3858401 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=suse.de Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=suse.de ARC-Filter: OpenARC Filter v1.0.0 sourceware.org F067C3858401 Authentication-Results: server2.sourceware.org; arc=none smtp.remote-ip=2a07:de40:b251:101:10:150:64:1 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1712152874; cv=none; b=cXaGOGDG2C8+ex2jdCZMr+o3yDzJrmpEVWX74DYTv4ZPn6Hvs67CEUrmrYUdcF0bPCvf5jZKN5VU+5PqbFvEsrQXo/yd88AKGGmfV6C6kyTeWmRygL+TRBc4geP0CsEyqAvbNeR1LdXDYswORFgFABpUGCWYgPKCVTgoJ4Dmhc4= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1712152874; c=relaxed/simple; bh=XBHHi4uo1PujU8PlaalJHPHSa3WonjrJTDdVhTsIzGA=; h=DKIM-Signature:DKIM-Signature:Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID: MIME-Version; b=mLXYhV0HqYWOxtaGBkltG2BJNQlEYVjAjG4N5QZZPvnh2xB1TvYd6VBHsVeoq3SsLxXFnogk+Wf93wOJbA3XKjo0N/pXgaHt6qnzEkX1UGH765skjr3eYSsnktgV41ZuHXbCMYsrKbYBBaLW3/QD1lM7bfOEmSahEi1YLSSzPTk= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; server2.sourceware.org Received: from knuth.suse.de (unknown [10.168.5.16]) by smtp-out1.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184223714B; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 14:01:12 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.de; s=susede2_rsa; t=1712152872; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=RaRemvfIdMRATAoII/0Ij6lRBgOmw8PxGHoGMZ7rxfU=; b=f7y2dZWBgtDjSm3+kp3+WXMEC4Kr1pY63o9RZRUhC+qY0pEzmxOwV5r1j2Xe1RsJ8GQXzw GotRwqkSdxM17OxUD0IbPx6AH6AV0r0ZZmUSb1OHrktkjAPeiNUfjjsRqTGmzSzll7X7z5 5PvovPabo3OJPY9QmEVpBtkOGL5qOsk= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=suse.de; s=susede2_ed25519; t=1712152872; h=from:from:reply-to:date:date:message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc: mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=RaRemvfIdMRATAoII/0Ij6lRBgOmw8PxGHoGMZ7rxfU=; b=hB0YwVX5MoyyL1Ypv7bRUv2+SLLJrTALhORNSKg0ss68PF6Z5nkg3Ab6c1JlS2kwpqppyR 0Dir1ydH69kzJMAg== Authentication-Results: smtp-out1.suse.de; none Received: by knuth.suse.de (Postfix, from userid 10510) id 01042345731; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 16:00:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knuth.suse.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E324B345730; Wed, 3 Apr 2024 16:00:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2024 16:00:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Michael Matz To: Martin Uecker cc: Ian Lance Taylor , Paul Koning , Paul Eggert , Sandra Loosemore , Mark Wielaard , overseers@sourceware.org, gcc@gcc.gnu.org, binutils@sourceware.org, gdb@sourceware.org, libc-alpha@sourceware.org Subject: Re: Sourceware mitigating and preventing the next xz-backdoor In-Reply-To: <6239192ba9ff8aad0752309a54b633dc75a57c77.camel@tugraz.at> Message-ID: <8e877d2f-01e0-c786-dea5-265edbdc0c07@suse.de> References: <20240329203909.GS9427@gnu.wildebeest.org> <20240401150617.GF19478@gnu.wildebeest.org> <12215cd2-16db-4ee4-bd98-6a4bcf318592@cs.ucla.edu> <6239192ba9ff8aad0752309a54b633dc75a57c77.camel@tugraz.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="8323328-1177330683-1712152841=:12903" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.79 / 50.00]; CTYPE_MIXED_BOGUS(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.20)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; BAYES_HAM(-0.01)[48.00%]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[golang.org,comcast.net,cs.ucla.edu,baylibre.com,klomp.org,sourceware.org,gcc.gnu.org]; DKIM_SIGNED(0.00)[suse.de:s=susede2_rsa,suse.de:s=susede2_ed25519]; FUZZY_BLOCKED(0.00)[rspamd.com]; FREEMAIL_ENVRCPT(0.00)[comcast.net]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[11]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[] X-Spam-Score: 0.79 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --8323328-1177330683-1712152841=:12903 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hello, On Wed, 3 Apr 2024, Martin Uecker via Gcc wrote: > > > Seems reasonable, but note that it wouldn't make any difference to > > > this attack. The liblzma library was modified to corrupt the sshd > > > binary, when sshd was linked against liblzma. The actual attack > > > occurred via a connection to a corrupt sshd. If sshd was running as > > > root, as is normal, the attacker had root access to the machine. None > > > of the attacking steps had anything to do with having root access > > > while building or installing the program. > > There does not seem a single good solution against something like this. > > My take a way is that software needs to become less complex. Do  > we really still need complex build systems such as autoconf? Do we really need complex languages like C++ to write our software in? SCNR :) Complexity lies in the eye of the beholder, but to be honest in the software that we're dealing with here, the build system or autoconf does _not_ come to mind first when thinking about complexity. (And, FWIW, testing for features isn't "complex". And have you looked at other build systems? I have, and none of them are less complex, just opaque in different ways from make+autotools). Ciao, Michael. --8323328-1177330683-1712152841=:12903--