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From: Zack Weinberg <zackw@panix.com>
To: Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
Cc: "Carlos O'Donell" <carlos@redhat.com>,
	libc-alpha <libc-alpha@sourceware.org>,
	 "Joseph S. Myers" <joseph@codesourcery.com>,
	Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
	Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: Pseudoterminal terminology (was Re: Rename "master" branch to "main"?)
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:52:23 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAKCAbMgZog7dWqX_N0H97EqfYDiB2A3+Rxyn-5AmRTV+NZCGMg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CALxWeYoZRHAQtXzk-eihnnCA3YTV=PMxeLHYqRkDSgsBNupMjg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That said I think this is not as important as other, similar, changes
> > we could make. For instance, the term "master" is used _along with_
> > "slave" in manual/terminal.texi, and I fully intend to rewrite that
> > chapter to eliminate that terminology as soon as I find the time.
> > Anyone want to beat me to it?
>
> No, but please include me in the discussions. It would be good if libc
> and man-pages could find common terminology.
>
> But I agree also with Joseph that the scope is wider and we should
> think about what terminology POSIX might (be convinced to) switch to.
>
> Unlike Florian, I'm not excessively attached to the need to settle on
> a name that starts with 's'. I think it might be too easy to get into
> knots trying to find names that match 'm' and 's', and one should at
> least allow for the possibility of good names that don't fit with
> those letters; what would be best, IMO, is names that "feel right".

I agree.  In particular I think there is no reason to struggle with
coming up with terms that fit "ptmx" and "pts" because BSD ptys use
totally different device node names anyway (tty[pqrs...]NN and
pty[pqrs...]NN) and there's no hope of finding something that works
with both.

I don't want to commit to terminology until I've had a go at rewriting
the manual, because I think doing the rewrite will be the easiest way
to figure out whether the new terms are good, but what I'm currently
thinking is:

    "pty master device" -> "pty line-side device" or "outside device"
    "pty slave device"  -> "pty host-side device" or "inside device"
    /dev/ptmx stands for "pseudoterminal multiplexer"
    /dev/pts  stand for "pseudoterminals (directory of)"

Currently I like "line-side" and "host-side" because it seems like a
natural generalization from true terminal device nodes (which are
always host-side) to pseudoterminals (additionally have a line-side
device node).  And it can generalize to the relationship between
Linux's /dev/ttyNN and /dev/vcs(a)NN as well.

zw

  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-07-04 16:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-06-30 18:10 Rename "master" branch to "main"? Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 18:35 ` Paul Eggert
2020-06-30 20:16   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 21:08     ` Paul Eggert
2020-06-30 18:59 ` Florian Weimer
2020-06-30 20:14   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01  9:38     ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-03 15:26   ` Richard Earnshaw
2020-07-03 15:33     ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 21:24 ` Joseph Myers
2020-06-30 21:44   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 22:56     ` Joseph Myers
2020-06-30 22:59 ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-01  7:17   ` Andreas Schwab
2020-07-01 15:42     ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 12:29   ` Adhemerval Zanella
2020-07-01 12:49     ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 13:41       ` Adhemerval Zanella
2020-07-01 16:15   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 17:45     ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-01 18:29       ` Paul Eggert
2020-07-01 18:43         ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-02 15:40 ` Zack Weinberg
2020-07-02 16:00   ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-02 16:36   ` Joseph Myers
2020-07-02 20:46     ` Paul Eggert
2020-07-04 16:43     ` Zack Weinberg
2020-07-02 20:58   ` Michael Kerrisk
2020-07-03 15:20     ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-04 16:52     ` Zack Weinberg [this message]
2020-07-05 14:54       ` Pseudoterminal terminology (was Re: Rename "master" branch to "main"?) J William Piggott
2020-07-06  9:18         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-06  9:13       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-27 20:32         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-27 20:52           ` enh
2020-07-27 20:55             ` enh
2020-07-27 20:59               ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-27 22:48                 ` enh
2020-07-28 15:26             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 15:32               ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-28 15:44                 ` enh
2020-07-28 19:16                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 19:18                   ` enh
2020-07-28 18:47               ` enh
2020-07-28 19:27                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 19:33                   ` enh
2020-07-03 15:22 ` Rename "master" branch to "main"? Richard Earnshaw
2020-07-03 15:37   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-13 15:14 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-14  9:21 ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-14 11:17   ` Siddhesh Poyarekar
2021-01-14 17:54   ` Joseph Myers
2021-01-14 20:56     ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-14 21:42       ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-20 13:49         ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21  0:23           ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-21 13:30             ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21 13:57               ` Andreas Schwab
2021-01-21 17:06               ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-21 19:37                 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21 20:19                   ` Andreas Schwab
2021-01-22  2:32                   ` Mike Frysinger

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