From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x241.google.com (mail-oi1-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::241]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0504C3858D35 for ; Mon, 6 Jul 2020 09:18:22 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 0504C3858D35 Received: by mail-oi1-x241.google.com with SMTP id e4so23344855oib.1 for ; Mon, 06 Jul 2020 02:18:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:reply-to :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uORiAFlgaFIcEfSXjd3F18d1hJDUdaWLs8qPkcAKBxI=; b=TklLB9c09lpOBAQhspe3pbeq+11Ds851KZOs7U3bhnx1X0NousugXvSNClAEMHVaIG YnBmEl33JLRrR/XBvJUTnJhc/fe6xHYepHJeFBU8Rv/1tGOm2tSnC1BFCdSJrivfLQq0 rhyPbc73DvbhthyqsDXCVkofj6AVkAZXpVLxLCSUy4Z35IxJ9t3Tp6BBdC10huOeg4uu Sp5YAPVljMQxRfEdAkEak1LjLMP22RPzpMb8agoFPh4GiKoWWoh2/6gvj3KZ0nE88v2h SgsxachHHpAOlt0WMNO8dXZA+tkUaS85uV+bJ15IJeE0NwKD7uRdEjGnx1Pb37qmhFnn dx1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533KygDlIOwKhiPJ4HO8k6LI4Z5Eu1+mNaJtJD/MdiO32l3OrDrw u1+uaVpiZJ6CpefqSVJb0AoqByQWpnnTMDJxqpk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxfv+zaPYgCDdB8+3wsmBNeBMZYCdVXLtgT6/oh1G9k7aLFNJJAVtW6ah8884nKJ9BWBz3GSw4iF3Kz1PtyImE= X-Received: by 2002:a54:4798:: with SMTP id o24mr4905557oic.148.1594027101405; Mon, 06 Jul 2020 02:18:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Reply-To: mtk.manpages@gmail.com From: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 11:18:10 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Pseudoterminal terminology (was Re: Rename "master" branch to "main"?) To: J William Piggott Cc: Zack Weinberg , Florian Weimer , libc-alpha , "Joseph S. Myers" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, KAM_SHORT, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: libc-alpha@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Libc-alpha mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2020 09:18:23 -0000 On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 at 16:55, J William Piggott wrote: > > > > On Sat, 4 Jul 2020, Zack Weinberg wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Michael Kerrisk wrote: > > > > I don't want to commit to terminology until I've had a go at rewriting > > the manual, because I think doing the rewrite will be the easiest way > > to figure out whether the new terms are good, but what I'm currently > > thinking is: > > > > "pty master device" -> "pty line-side device" or "outside device" > > "pty slave device" -> "pty host-side device" or "inside device" > > /dev/ptmx stands for "pseudoterminal multiplexer" > > /dev/pts stand for "pseudoterminals (directory of)" > > > > Currently I like "line-side" and "host-side" because it seems like a > > natural generalization from true terminal device nodes (which are > > always host-side) to pseudoterminals (additionally have a line-side > > device node). And it can generalize to the relationship between > > Linux's /dev/ttyNN and /dev/vcs(a)NN as well. > > I'm not sure that line-side would be quickly relatable. Perhaps even > ambiguous, as both ends have a line-side. Online, both ends are hosts as > far as that goes. In old terms only one end was a 'terminal'; the other > end was the mainframe, right? > > If we want to evoke online terminals of old; there are well > established, and quickly relatable, terms from the Internet. > > server <-> client > > Or the 'agent' terms from email; substitute (T)erminal for (M)ail, for > example, TUA Terminal User Agent: > > MUA: Mail User Agent (client) > MTA: Mail Transfer Agent (server) > Or > MDA: Mail Distribution Agent > MSA: Mail Submission Agent FWIW, "server" + "client" feels too tied to network applications for my taste (and many applications of pseudoterminals have no relation to networks). But still, I think it's good to kickk ideas like this around. Thanks, Michael -- Michael Kerrisk Linux man-pages maintainer; http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/ Linux/UNIX System Programming Training: http://man7.org/training/