From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x643.google.com (mail-ej1-x643.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::643]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8305B385EC4E for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 14:20:12 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 8305B385EC4E Received: by mail-ej1-x643.google.com with SMTP id kq25so13292388ejb.3 for ; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:20:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VtVNUXL/pcdG1uzLUlw0dL+8bXGpofZHcxiTfjeo5mY=; b=OBuCUG6Mvh9Tl6kno4AR50yoVp3/1dtYWwOZCvEwuJYPO0JZbOWGdKrARFvCw/zW8X 84G1v69bdi3Qc5eyundkxrFpuCfsXMt9LLsD95MopIOWY8K66d0AC7hIu9vNmSS8WKkp uCkuPY3th2l73z3K8zZrG5axzlm7cFCjWobbFBWxKKt2ydDWqNsKFwp/yDdNOtDP5IBr gJR18u/BqS+BrwwjxzXipfNxCZ5os9FYmBAy6qS4GL83olqHBy/8JUbjVTM1nxSAIrgg l36kdEp76ixU+3DggEhHuylpBPgmFqlxrHgsgUpuM6rIlhFetA2GHden9NL7/NLzZTVN gFmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530B69koySxBq8EAk/xmqw5WIJIvN6sQFNE+6NHGkLDgMCt/GVVD w5frVpmLZnjqB4dnQS39FRHG43h+i1mND3GeJ/E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzGr3Ua/nn4H6XA11I12hDbLwgfj64UyuqIyfU/w9K3LJacuMx9/xLIRkhU7WmC61mHlpxKIjzV/buoa+DCo/I= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:20db:: with SMTP id qq27mr27739976ejb.550.1597155611674; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 07:20:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6425d636-7f48-3a73-ef0e-7bb5b991360c@gmail.com> <20200810135821.GA11918@panix.com> <3ace6e62-d3cc-ef7b-56b2-9b6b5c724d5b@gmail.com> <20200811115121.GA29807@panix.com> In-Reply-To: <20200811115121.GA29807@panix.com> From: Michael Kerrisk Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:20:00 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Pseudoterminal terminology in POSIX To: Thor Lancelot Simon Cc: Larry Dwyer , Florian Weimer , linux-man , Geoff Clare , austin-group-l@opengroup.org, Andrew Josey , libc-alpha , Elliot Hughes , Joseph Myers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org X-BeenThere: libc-alpha@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Libc-alpha mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 14:20:13 -0000 On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 1:51 PM Thor Lancelot Simon via austin-group-l at The Open Group wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:31:58AM +0200, Michael Kerrisk (man-pages) wrote: > > On 8/10/20 3:58 PM, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > > > On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 04:18:10PM -0700, Larry Dwyer via austin-group-l at The Open Group wrote: > > >> How about the "control" side and the "terminal" side (of the paired device > > >> files)? > > > > > > How about the "pty side" and the "tty side"? It seems hard to be more > > > neutral than that and we can be sure there is no ambiguity. > > > > This is an option that came up in the glibc/Linux man-pages discussion. > > My objection is that I want proper nouns that one can use in a prose > > description of pseudoterminals. > > All names are proper nouns. > > They might not be the particular proper nouns that we're used to seeing, > but they are still proper nouns! Let me clarify then: my preference is to have natural language nouns, words that a speaker who was unfamiliar with the domain would know (or could reasonably guess) how to pronounce when reading them. Thanks, Michael