From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from slateblue.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net (slateblue.cherry.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.223.168]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1894A3858D20 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2023 16:30:47 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org 1894A3858D20 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=gotplt.org Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gotplt.org X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27A4F802058; Fri, 1 Sep 2023 16:30:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a265.dreamhost.com (unknown [127.0.0.6]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id AB656801269; Fri, 1 Sep 2023 16:30:46 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=arc-2022; d=mailchannels.net; t=1693585846; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=esmodvIzPuUFhzYaq+Dq5DoPDFESs7KzAc4XvkA2TJYjNUIF9yreUyRcte1pG53vaTqr0b x9oxCKvA8/nt0MOFkN5yisExjQQWgM76TOsnZydjxu1Jfo6uV2ffXeDNAjorzxzdoiaywn b3I0ZNJ2n1wvc1ipAIMHnd/QUQQaOn/+lWgrVMJtBfoD6AW8o3BCrGMaQNEZywGfC3uHe9 4JegC9lNRvYJRnF8prkBuMOpkYxQJzYL7F48SA9fowHVl1wGNPf0cCpvPXlUBJvTIDFwsS hPl/G4N2ez+Drfon423t/pPeK3kgrB1fr2JetLRYBlzRfxyO9hWfpSndyQ9X7w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mailchannels.net; s=arc-2022; t=1693585846; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=XJHM/Gl4HN9jT5ZfF47+BAYZTeAa91RyyHoQEqK/4Sg=; b=q0YGLxrhlVZQsrq715JmnxelhKbNTw4KHS4m4+8x4pLQfnCDVJm3ddhh8eCTdmPGYkMMQc R7AGi/juyThXXGpas8xxtfojgv0dcMHtH2SxE6midW+FPzqdKLxMv7H2A4uyvDXZ8CwRt+ DGKXW3lvihk60DOEfkAKGTmpc58vLpLrBzo2rj8x7SRyTEMaeyRE+BAMM09Mschf5VzKuR yyLTf3xhRJxFb7CaNu25fVktN7ltACg8gzm6lQigeS/62/PitumoFfoxpxxVRAyh8KEvtw tZXrKkV3K8IYPwkQ5W2kydv4Rrk/edoaV7DBg9yos3PlgeMGkv7vE2wwyPgKrA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; rspamd-bfd6864c7-km9cg; auth=pass smtp.auth=dreamhost smtp.mailfrom=siddhesh@gotplt.org X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|siddhesh@gotplt.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Reaction-Chemical: 0fb71f1f55a2e2b4_1693585846989_48575677 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1693585846989:1150534702 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1693585846988 Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a265.dreamhost.com (pop.dreamhost.com [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by 100.117.184.116 (trex/6.9.1); Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:30:46 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.182] (bras-vprn-toroon4834w-lp130-02-142-113-138-41.dsl.bell.ca [142.113.138.41]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: siddhesh@gotplt.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a265.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4Rck6Y5rP7z7d; Fri, 1 Sep 2023 09:30:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gotplt.org; s=dreamhost; t=1693585846; bh=XJHM/Gl4HN9jT5ZfF47+BAYZTeAa91RyyHoQEqK/4Sg=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=icCCMD9s3qWjNNsk25nrntP2FStxGY/w2bpnaJZPBxLYR16UaB/wXMLDKRYl575ak ECH0Nru0/Eiw8nhXPel4faVG8ybrdXQycEks4gtDKcoF/JsAllUTaUVqtbMSKndgyz ihDg3h/D9foUZyDKzd8FUQb9P1HfHnYGwTl3XaYkP/OUlu4jKBlCh0pS7FhDerZVe5 T0IIHACWCLkzwCX+C46eEZG3I1EmzDm1zuQb/1U2uqta20Z6/i6kVzzxQzlIyplSZW gKfr9lV6oxWtZROguocjlwBvVREeDZXk8KcZ7pgsWIJP8H9doSZsW6bihxVD+g4Zjv uvh6ibTimaykQ== Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:30:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Subject: Re: [Action Required] glibc decision to use CTI services. Content-Language: en-US To: Sam James Cc: Paul Eggert , Mark Wielaard , Jakub Jelinek , libc-alpha@sourceware.org, Andreas Schwab , Joseph Myers , Maxim Kuvyrkov References: <15af1715-3530-7c29-7595-5abe48c18e8b@cs.ucla.edu> <87ledqe8ej.fsf@gentoo.org> <43743bb5-e79e-f915-9528-4b3556de1c5c@gotplt.org> <87sf7yc4py.fsf@gentoo.org> From: Siddhesh Poyarekar In-Reply-To: <87sf7yc4py.fsf@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3031.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: On 2023-09-01 11:01, Sam James wrote: > Thanks - I did read that at the time, but I wasn't very specific here, > sorry. I guess I meant I don't really understand the transition plan > if it goes ahead. We've been discussing it in some detail on the CTI TAG mailing list[1]. The actual transition plan will come when the stewards vote to actually approve this. It would be a waste of time if there's no interest among the stewards to move services to LFIT. > While we know they handle kernel.org fine, I'm a bit nervous > about it being an unknown entity wrt glibc - and also whether > it needs to be all or nothing. Yes there are differences but they're all workflow related. In terms of setup and scale though, glibc is in the noise compared to the kernel and what we're really hoping for is to pick up some of the infrastructure they already have for the kernel, e.g. patchwork automation and pre-commit CI. At the moment there are at least 3 people (including me) spending time on this when we could be doing something else. It's also not really all or nothing. I expect some services to remain on sourceware because they're distributed by default, e.g. builder. > Could they not provide services in addition to sourceware, > at least initially? Do we need to move all the eggs? > > Or, to put it another way: it just seems like a leap into the unknown > and I don't really get why it's worth it yet. We've been discussing this for some years now (in the true spirit of conservatism that is prevalent in the GNU toolchain community when it comes to major changes), so I don't know if it's fair to look at it as a leap into the unknown :) >> To summarize, it's not about the overseers, who have indeed >> been prompt in handling requests and providing support for existing >> infrastructure. It's about doing things like service isolation, future >> enhancements/scaling and dedicated devops, that current infrastructure >> (that we depend on Red Hat to provide) is unable to >> support. Essentially, this is a move from Red Hat to LF. >> > > Have we actually hit scaling issues? The only real thing we need to > scale up is our testing AFAIK - which we have builder.sourceware.org for now > and it's growing. The builder doesn't really need the sourceware server to scale. I don't think glibc singularly has hit scaling issues but it shares the same instance of most services with most other sourceware projects, not to mention the fact that it's all on one machine. That is a *lot* of core software crammed into a single box. > I can see the advantage in dedicated devops and service isolation - > although I don't know if sw has given an opinion on whether they can > do service isolation. I don't think Red Hat has the infrastructure behind sourceware to do anything more than it currently does. It's all just one machine. I don't know if anybody made requests for it though. Thanks, Sid [1] https://lore.kernel.org/cti-tac/b1fa024-2144-2645-bdc5-96588a529cf0@codesourcery.com/T/#t