public inbox for libc-alpha@sourceware.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com>
To: Adhemerval Zanella <adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org>,
	libc-alpha@sourceware.org
Subject: Re: Rename "master" branch to "main"?
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 08:49:48 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <dd76e25d-94c8-a8a1-24c9-9977b86afe19@redhat.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <340a8ba6-889a-1b9b-cea8-20af5b79e2a6@linaro.org>

On 7/1/20 8:29 AM, Adhemerval Zanella via Libc-alpha wrote:
> On 30/06/2020 19:59, DJ Delorie via Libc-alpha wrote:
>> "Carlos O'Donell via Libc-alpha" <libc-alpha@sourceware.org> writes:
>>> My proposal would be to rename the development and current release branch:
>>>
>>> * master -> main
>>>
>>> * release/2.32/master -> release/2.32/main
>>
>> I will pose the unpopular opinion that the cost of this change[1] is
>> higher than the value of the change.  The word "master" has many
>> meanings, and even in this case the context (and thus meaning) has
>> changed over time.  
> 
> I tend to agree with you and this 'master' meaning is even more nebulous
> in other languages context (on portuguese, for instance, its direct
> translation is 'mestre' which is does not have the same historical baggage
> as in english, the derogatory meaning is more associated with 'senhor' 
> which directly translate to 'mister' or 'lord').

In the context of git, the term "master" was taken from bitkeeper, and
there it used as a master/slave context for repositories. The irony is that
git is a dvcs, there is no "master" repository in the context of the design
of the framework.

> Since we use "master" in the adjective case (master
>> branch), and don't use the word "slave" anywhere (we use
>> master/release), IMHO this is a case where we've gone too far down the
>> slippery slope and are making a change for the sake of looking good and
>> not for the sake of actually improving anything.  Our efforts to
>> *actually* be inclusive have been far more useful and meaningful than
>> any efforts to just *appear* inclusive, and we should continue to apply
>> our efforts in that manner, such as responding more timely to new people
>> on the mailing list and IRC, or reviewing patches.
> 
> Totally agree, the pragmatic gain with this chance does not address or
> improve any of the points you noted. A program of active mentoring, for
> instance, would be way more effective (just to give an example).
 
We should do *both*!

I have a mentoring program that I'm running within Red Hat to train an
additional person in glibc development, and I think it's going well.

If the internal mentoring goes well I will extend it to external mentoring
in 2021 for new developers on an annual basis.

>> If we want to rename the master branch to a more meaningful name, there
>> are far more meaningful choices than "main".  "Trunk" goes with the
>> "branch" metaphor.  How about "development"?  We have an opportunity to
>> pick something precise and obvious, let's not waste it by blindly
>> following others.
> 
> I am still doubtful if we should really change the branch name.

The branch renaming is a non-recurring engineering cost for us to 
transition. It has no ongoing cost, unlike a mentoring program, which has
a sustained cost forever. Thus the cost of the rename is minor compared
to the cost of the mentoring project.

We have at least two instances of identified problematic language in the
source repository. At the end of the day, for me, it's just a search and
replace away from being fixed. I don't care what we call it. I do care
that a group of people have asked us to change it.

I'm not in a position to judge anyone's feelings, but I am in a position
to act and make others feel more included with a change in branch name.

-- 
Cheers,
Carlos.


  reply	other threads:[~2020-07-01 12:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-06-30 18:10 Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 18:35 ` Paul Eggert
2020-06-30 20:16   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 21:08     ` Paul Eggert
2020-06-30 18:59 ` Florian Weimer
2020-06-30 20:14   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01  9:38     ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-03 15:26   ` Richard Earnshaw
2020-07-03 15:33     ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 21:24 ` Joseph Myers
2020-06-30 21:44   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 22:56     ` Joseph Myers
2020-06-30 22:59 ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-01  7:17   ` Andreas Schwab
2020-07-01 15:42     ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 12:29   ` Adhemerval Zanella
2020-07-01 12:49     ` Carlos O'Donell [this message]
2020-07-01 13:41       ` Adhemerval Zanella
2020-07-01 16:15   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 17:45     ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-01 18:29       ` Paul Eggert
2020-07-01 18:43         ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-02 15:40 ` Zack Weinberg
2020-07-02 16:00   ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-02 16:36   ` Joseph Myers
2020-07-02 20:46     ` Paul Eggert
2020-07-04 16:43     ` Zack Weinberg
2020-07-02 20:58   ` Michael Kerrisk
2020-07-03 15:20     ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-04 16:52     ` Pseudoterminal terminology (was Re: Rename "master" branch to "main"?) Zack Weinberg
2020-07-05 14:54       ` J William Piggott
2020-07-06  9:18         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-06  9:13       ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-27 20:32         ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-27 20:52           ` enh
2020-07-27 20:55             ` enh
2020-07-27 20:59               ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-27 22:48                 ` enh
2020-07-28 15:26             ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 15:32               ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-28 15:44                 ` enh
2020-07-28 19:16                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 19:18                   ` enh
2020-07-28 18:47               ` enh
2020-07-28 19:27                 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 19:33                   ` enh
2020-07-03 15:22 ` Rename "master" branch to "main"? Richard Earnshaw
2020-07-03 15:37   ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-13 15:14 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-14  9:21 ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-14 11:17   ` Siddhesh Poyarekar
2021-01-14 17:54   ` Joseph Myers
2021-01-14 20:56     ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-14 21:42       ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-20 13:49         ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21  0:23           ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-21 13:30             ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21 13:57               ` Andreas Schwab
2021-01-21 17:06               ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-21 19:37                 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21 20:19                   ` Andreas Schwab
2021-01-22  2:32                   ` Mike Frysinger

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=dd76e25d-94c8-a8a1-24c9-9977b86afe19@redhat.com \
    --to=carlos@redhat.com \
    --cc=adhemerval.zanella@linaro.org \
    --cc=libc-alpha@sourceware.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).