From: J William Piggott <elseifthen@gmx.com>
To: Zack Weinberg <zackw@panix.com>
Cc: Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>,
Florian Weimer <fweimer@redhat.com>,
libc-alpha <libc-alpha@sourceware.org>,
"Joseph S. Myers" <joseph@codesourcery.com>
Subject: Re: Pseudoterminal terminology (was Re: Rename "master" branch to "main"?)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2020 10:54:55 -0400 (EDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <nycvar.YAK.7.77.849.2007051024510.1235@zhn.tzk.pbz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAKCAbMgZog7dWqX_N0H97EqfYDiB2A3+Rxyn-5AmRTV+NZCGMg@mail.gmail.com>
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020, Zack Weinberg wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 4:58 PM Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That said I think this is not as important as other, similar, changes
>>> we could make. For instance, the term "master" is used _along with_
>>> "slave" in manual/terminal.texi, and I fully intend to rewrite that
>>> chapter to eliminate that terminology as soon as I find the time.
>>> Anyone want to beat me to it?
>>
>> No, but please include me in the discussions. It would be good if libc
>> and man-pages could find common terminology.
>>
>> But I agree also with Joseph that the scope is wider and we should
>> think about what terminology POSIX might (be convinced to) switch to.
>>
>> Unlike Florian, I'm not excessively attached to the need to settle on
>> a name that starts with 's'. I think it might be too easy to get into
>> knots trying to find names that match 'm' and 's', and one should at
>> least allow for the possibility of good names that don't fit with
>> those letters; what would be best, IMO, is names that "feel right".
>
> I agree. In particular I think there is no reason to struggle with
> coming up with terms that fit "ptmx" and "pts" because BSD ptys use
> totally different device node names anyway (tty[pqrs...]NN and
> pty[pqrs...]NN) and there's no hope of finding something that works
> with both.
>
> I don't want to commit to terminology until I've had a go at rewriting
> the manual, because I think doing the rewrite will be the easiest way
> to figure out whether the new terms are good, but what I'm currently
> thinking is:
>
> "pty master device" -> "pty line-side device" or "outside device"
> "pty slave device" -> "pty host-side device" or "inside device"
> /dev/ptmx stands for "pseudoterminal multiplexer"
> /dev/pts stand for "pseudoterminals (directory of)"
>
> Currently I like "line-side" and "host-side" because it seems like a
> natural generalization from true terminal device nodes (which are
> always host-side) to pseudoterminals (additionally have a line-side
> device node). And it can generalize to the relationship between
> Linux's /dev/ttyNN and /dev/vcs(a)NN as well.
I'm not sure that line-side would be quickly relatable. Perhaps even
ambiguous, as both ends have a line-side. Online, both ends are hosts as
far as that goes. In old terms only one end was a 'terminal'; the other
end was the mainframe, right?
If we want to evoke online terminals of old; there are well
established, and quickly relatable, terms from the Internet.
server <-> client
Or the 'agent' terms from email; substitute (T)erminal for (M)ail, for
example, TUA Terminal User Agent:
MUA: Mail User Agent (client)
MTA: Mail Transfer Agent (server)
Or
MDA: Mail Distribution Agent
MSA: Mail Submission Agent
>
> zw
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-07-05 14:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 62+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-06-30 18:10 Rename "master" branch to "main"? Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 18:35 ` Paul Eggert
2020-06-30 20:16 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 21:08 ` Paul Eggert
2020-06-30 18:59 ` Florian Weimer
2020-06-30 20:14 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 9:38 ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-03 15:26 ` Richard Earnshaw
2020-07-03 15:33 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 21:24 ` Joseph Myers
2020-06-30 21:44 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-06-30 22:56 ` Joseph Myers
2020-06-30 22:59 ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-01 7:17 ` Andreas Schwab
2020-07-01 15:42 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 12:29 ` Adhemerval Zanella
2020-07-01 12:49 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 13:41 ` Adhemerval Zanella
2020-07-01 16:15 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-01 17:45 ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-01 18:29 ` Paul Eggert
2020-07-01 18:43 ` DJ Delorie
2020-07-02 15:40 ` Zack Weinberg
2020-07-02 16:00 ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-02 16:36 ` Joseph Myers
2020-07-02 20:46 ` Paul Eggert
2020-07-04 16:43 ` Zack Weinberg
2020-07-02 20:58 ` Michael Kerrisk
2020-07-03 15:20 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-04 16:52 ` Pseudoterminal terminology (was Re: Rename "master" branch to "main"?) Zack Weinberg
2020-07-05 14:54 ` J William Piggott [this message]
2020-07-06 9:18 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-06 9:13 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-27 20:32 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-27 20:52 ` enh
2020-07-27 20:55 ` enh
2020-07-27 20:59 ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-27 22:48 ` enh
2020-07-28 15:26 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 15:32 ` Florian Weimer
2020-07-28 15:44 ` enh
2020-07-28 19:16 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 19:18 ` enh
2020-07-28 18:47 ` enh
2020-07-28 19:27 ` Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)
2020-07-28 19:33 ` enh
2020-07-03 15:22 ` Rename "master" branch to "main"? Richard Earnshaw
2020-07-03 15:37 ` Carlos O'Donell
2020-07-13 15:14 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-14 9:21 ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-14 11:17 ` Siddhesh Poyarekar
2021-01-14 17:54 ` Joseph Myers
2021-01-14 20:56 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-14 21:42 ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-20 13:49 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21 0:23 ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-21 13:30 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21 13:57 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-01-21 17:06 ` Mike Frysinger
2021-01-21 19:37 ` Carlos O'Donell
2021-01-21 20:19 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-01-22 2:32 ` Mike Frysinger
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