From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13900 invoked by alias); 9 May 2018 23:51:00 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-alpha-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-alpha-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 13889 invoked by uid 89); 9 May 2018 23:50:59 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,KAM_LAZY_DOMAIN_SECURITY,LIKELY_SPAM_BODY,SPF_HELO_PASS autolearn=no version=3.3.2 spammy=bus, sorts X-HELO: mx1.redhat.com From: Alexandre Oliva To: Siddhesh Poyarekar Cc: Jonathan Nieder , DJ Delorie , libc-alpha@sourceware.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] Revert Abortion joke removal. References: <20180507235151.GC10348@aiede.svl.corp.google.com> <26d9590f-6e2f-8039-005f-a433b0ac8bfd@gotplt.org> <76b6f09e-c76f-c50c-5ae7-b6dd3998951b@gotplt.org> <06973f71-be2c-517a-64a9-312ef1ae47f5@gotplt.org> Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 23:51:00 -0000 In-Reply-To: <06973f71-be2c-517a-64a9-312ef1ae47f5@gotplt.org> (Siddhesh Poyarekar's message of "Wed, 9 May 2018 23:16:31 +0530") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-SW-Source: 2018-05/txt/msg00427.txt.bz2 On May 9, 2018, Siddhesh Poyarekar wrote: > On the contrary I claim that you're confusing the FSF agenda with the > GNU core values, something RMS also conceded are distinct, just that > he doesn't see the problem with the ambiguity. Ok, I guess I should have elaborated on that point before, since you've stated that misunderstanding before and I chose not to pursue it. The FSF is exclusively about freedoms and rights related with software, including human rights that are affected by software. GNU is about developing software for the ethical reasons behind the Free Software movement, reasons that make essential the four freedoms that apply equally to software, documentation, and any other kind of information for practical use. So, you see, the GNU agenda is broader, not narrower, than the FSF's, in spite of the *means* to advance that agenda being narrower, namely, developing and publishing software and its corresponding documentation, rather than all sorts of political and social activism. For this reason, GNU might advance agendas that are slightly out of scope for the FSF. This is one such case: opposition to censorship laws about information for practical use is in scope for GNU, but if the information is not in some way related with software or its documentation, and their users in their uses thereof, it is probably out of scope for the FSF. It is in scope for the Free Software movement, though: it has to do with the ethical reasons and the essential freedoms. > That hostile organization could be the FSF too. What's the guarantee > that RMS or whoever replaces him as the benevolent leader in future You don't say it, but this (partial) paragraph might be interpreted as implying that it is the FSF that appoints the Chief GNUisance. AFAIK, it's not. I honestly don't know how Richard's sucessor in that position will be appointed, but I assume Richard himself will nominate the successor, if he's retiring, and that he's left a will nominating one should he be hit by a bus. Failing that, we'll probably have to get GNU maintainers together and choose a new leader or a new power structure. It's not without risk, indeed. > does not abuse their power to do exactly what you propose could > happen? The freedom to fork has kept Richard's power in check, and that won't go away with whatever succeeds him. What's to everyone's advantage (including our enemies) is that Richard, warts and all, is so predictable and consistent. We can count on him to remain loyal to the Free Software principles, and to step even on allies' shoes occasionally. That loyalty can't be counted on of many others. I don't envy his future successors: it will be very very hard for them to be in his shoes. -- Alexandre Oliva, freedom fighter http://FSFLA.org/~lxoliva/ You must be the change you wish to see in the world. -- Gandhi Be Free! -- http://FSFLA.org/ FSF Latin America board member Free Software Evangelist|Red Hat Brasil GNU Toolchain Engineer