From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x229.google.com (mail-oi1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::229]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 023EB3858D28 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 01:33:46 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org 023EB3858D28 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=gmail.com Received: by mail-oi1-x229.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3a9a6a7a824so235623b6e.1 for ; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 18:33:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693359225; x=1693964025; darn=sourceware.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :reply-to:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Ay2pDInaZTw1A+2nAPU9fyjtJJRA+bbmpNlSg9BxZZA=; b=TiIuS6zgnqwTuI25oA0P9603zPbO1dWF4dxMcQB4VW8FnFxDYBZ9wLH2fHK8/1wPyy uvnpgJKaaUo3meJxBR428+bfWB3QlSLbuoNVaL4ED0gx/Ng7Y5yalAMgFJhIFWKbuah1 khU1YLeFNfjYz+WqwKt/EGvwsmVwT2O76IYu3ZuABeOzKChZtCzzomd/qgp3j1o6MduN FKk0EKxiS6ORGIYnYkWHYQsTXVjX1BhjQF4UwXZ3lxC46EGzYfeKrg6SIO2Th6WPBW4n A9OszJvEqbHCagsb+/s1UgqidfYC6/jG+67h19C2fVENBipNzmLrnyBRXE7CQ7UPBSro S7fw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693359225; x=1693964025; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :reply-to:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Ay2pDInaZTw1A+2nAPU9fyjtJJRA+bbmpNlSg9BxZZA=; b=X/kYhmuMpMEU4WyZwK7ROKACoGp+s4B+i2k/TgSoixHhEjF7J+qt20k+I513wkG/ev raLdnRCk2iy9qxb6epGX6dvZ7Cj7SF54rt4spu5n0mljBemesJrcXrLcGy1XMe3SK2go ElA6+1TiH0wtn6PwepDO5jufmtiaWDM0vBxD3RXDas0tEGO1e4KB0eXTR38ugCDAoUaU KZX6OfBhlokcjQ08N1FEemzj4w9jOTqq3oTOpyL/kTZrwHKb8lZSE2+aXbxfkCja9K/L Z0dwU8Do/Hy8N4LT90DEm/khb+fmwIHPFirHeL0KwbaCbEoVHOLD2BXn4QKVaxuQIWL6 QXbg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yze75kfARbNECIyL2efbM1LWStaD/W7P5qj7/qHC4DmYU/sRPDZ nglycO6/hD/TYtgnkYQkGe6oFOTe37FZRKb+avr3dKvJHYE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG5eqbepRGhWBg4KNcXO8k4+xlWbB2TmN5Y7LzhNMAEg9ascdaQEgzr7pbASJlw5As7LTocCDNveJMzqFBGK40= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1381:b0:3a3:9b4a:3959 with SMTP id c1-20020a056808138100b003a39b4a3959mr2816958oiw.17.1693359224965; Tue, 29 Aug 2023 18:33:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <10cbcb8a65639f88e7eeb503fd02df172bc46a07.camel@physik.fu-berlin.de> <80a52487-3105-ed5b-a1eb-ec1a0689ef21@linux-m68k.org> <4b4fe9c56dfdb8ec74150413cfc211d70243eb7e.camel@physik.fu-berlin.de> <87134fda9b761e3f81588d440242b9a4e986ddbf.camel@physik.fu-berlin.de> <95a4dd47f25addc0408a1016ecbe1ed18d9dab6d.camel@aura-online.co.uk> <95b19b7af3c64aa4048d47f2b2966e195e7b2235.camel@physik.fu-berlin.de> In-Reply-To: Reply-To: noloader@gmail.com From: Jeffrey Walton Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2023 21:33:33 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Tuple and changes for m68k with -malign-int To: Karoly Balogh Cc: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , linux-m68k , Finn Thain , debian-68k , libc-help@sourceware.org, James Le Cuirot Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,TXREP autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.6 (2021-04-09) on server2.sourceware.org List-Id: On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 5:53=E2=80=AFPM Karoly Balogh via Libc-help wrote: > > On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > > > > I don't want to force anyone here, but I'd also be fine with that. Th= e only > > > downside, apart from compatibility, appears to be slightly increased = memory > > > usage, and you're not exactly going to run modern Linux with 8MB RAM = anyway. > > > > Agreed. And I finally want to be able to use Rust and LLVM on m68k ;-). > > So, let me get this straight (or from anothe perspective if you will) - > neither LLVM and Rust is ready for prime time, because it can't accomodat= e > a decade old established standard on our platform. But Linux maintainers > rush forward, and break^Wchange the ABI, so we can accomodate some > half-baked fancy new tools. Regarding Rust, it is only guaranteed to work on x86_64 and Aarch64. Other platforms are a roll of the dice. See https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.html. In practice, we had to scrap a project that was based on Rust. It gave us too many problems on armel, armhf, aarch64 and powerpc. Rust could not even compile its own cargos. We rebooted and went back to C. (This was several years ago, before Aarch64 became Tier I). > Sometime later someone realizes: if you want to support any other system > on m68k (Amiga, Atari, 68k Mac, *BSD, game consoles (embedded) you name > it), you still need to add support for the original alignment > restrictions, because on those systems you're not always going to be able > recompile the $world. So that someone will have the skills to add the > needed changes to these tools, so they can finally mature and accommodate > more real world scenarios that are out there. > > At that point Linux m68k broke their own ABI for no reason, but because > someone couldn't wait until the necessary work was done, instead of > hacking problems around. Jeff