Re: Incorrect days of the week in ru_UA locale

[Rafal Luzynski <digitalfreak@lingonborough.com>]

5.10.2019 10:56 Keld Simonsen <keld@keldix.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 03, 2019 at 12:12:49AM +0200, Rafal Luzynski wrote:
> > [...]
> > Do I understand correctly that "tor" is correct here?  If yes,
> > it is OK, I am not an expert at your language. :-)
> 
> For Danish, this is fine, for listings and logs etc.
> The beginning of a sentence is normally capitalized in Danish, but this is
> not a sentence.

OK, I trust you.

> And having the day an month names capitalized leads confusion, you see a
> lot of occurrances
> in just plain text, where these names  are capitalized

No, I did not mean to capitalize both day and month names.  I only
meant to capitalize whatever is first, weekday names in this case.
And, again, as you can see, only in some languages.

> - and people believe ths is correct, also because 
> this is what is done in English.

I always care about the ability to apply the local language rules.
Applying English rules to other languages is (often) wrong.

> Also I am associated with the official Danish standarsization
> organisation, where I need to state Danish info in accordance
> with official conventions. and capitalizing the first letter because it
> would normally occur in the beginning
> of a sentence is IMHO a hack.
> 
> using 3-letter abbreviatons is posix style.

I think we had a similar discussion in the past and it has been said
that POSIX does not say anything about other languages than English.
Therefore other languages may use different rules if it is correct
for them.

> In danish I think 2-letter are more cmmon, but the 3-letters are wel
> understood, as you
> in 5 cases just need to add 'dag' to get the full name of the day: man,
> ons, fre, lør, søn, for  month names 2 letters are not enough but
> 3 letters are fine in Danish.
> 
> I believe the abday and abmon specs are for use in posix utilities, so
> they should  be posix-style, eg. all same length so
> file lisings with ls, and log entries format nicely.
> For other uses of more cultural oriented we should add new keywords, like
> maybe abday_cult

In many locales we use other abbreviations than 3 letters:
shorter, longer, varying.  Command line utilities somehow deal with this,
some just truncate the output, some ensure enough space for all possible
lengths etc.

> > I would say that Polish "czw" is not correct.  Indeed, normally
> > we write weekday names (and month names) lowercase but as this is
> > the beginning of a sentence the uppercase first letter would be
> > better.  For the same reason I think that Russian "????" is correct
> > even if CLDR says otherwise.
> 
> 
> I would rather solve this with a formatter spec to capitalice the first
> letter
> for example month names would nomally not be the first word in a sentence,
> an often the day-of-month would precede it.
> [...]

Sure, that's what I mean.  We can work on this in the future.

> > [...]
> > I think I posted it just while you were writing your message.
> > I will appreciate if you take a look.  It does not say clearly whether
> > upper/lowercase letters are correct, just that ru_UA should be a copy
> > of ru_RU.
> 
>  I saw your advice and I agree. Just do the copy.

That's ambiguous: do you mean I should:

1. Use “copy "ru_RU"” in ru_UA as I suggested in my patch?
or
2. Copy & paste (in an editor) abday from ru_RU to ru_UA?

Both solve the main issue except that the second one leaves a difference
in ab_alt_mon between ru_RU and ru_UA, the difference in capitalization
only.  Which became the issue of this discussion.

Regards,

Rafal