From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28408 invoked by alias); 25 Dec 2014 11:38:01 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-locales-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-locales-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 28386 invoked by uid 89); 25 Dec 2014 11:38:00 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,RDNS_DYNAMIC autolearn=no version=3.3.2 X-Spam-User: qpsmtpd, 2 recipients X-HELO: rap.rap.dk Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 11:38:00 -0000 From: Keld Simonsen To: aoliva at sourceware dot org Cc: libc-locales@sourceware.org Subject: Re: [Bug localedata/17750] wrong collation order of diacritics in most locales Message-ID: <20141225113753.GA1221@rap.rap.dk> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-SW-Source: 2014-q4/txt/msg00100.txt.bz2 On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 11:00:50PM +0000, aoliva at sourceware dot org wrote: > https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17750 > > --- Comment #3 from Alexandre Oliva --- > Even if your assumption that more than one diacritic in a word implied the word > was in French, there are various other points that make your suggestion flawed. > > First of all, the forward or backward accent ordering doesn't even apply to all > French speakers. > > Second, there are words with more than one diacritic in other languages. I > happen to be a native speaker of one such language. > > Third, you don't need more than one diacritic in a word to trigger the problem. > Consider Cortes, Córtes, and Cortés; pelo, pêlo, pelô; Schlagerforderung, > Schlagerförderung, Schlägerforderung, Schlägerförderung. > > Fourth, Unicode and CLDR are the result of a lot of work by a lot of people who > study lots of languages and local customs. It would take a lot more than > groundless speculation to conclude they're wrong. (Which is not to say they're > perfect in all regards, of course ;-) 1. Which french speakers does not use the backward accent ordering? I do have access to some of the sorting experts from the French community. 2. I see that for some languages, eg. German, it makes sense to use forward ordering on accents. Which languages would that apply to? 3. Yes, I see that there may be just one accent in some strings, and then the ordering depends om the position. I was involved in the current recommendation to use backward ordering in the default tables And I was not the only one, and the recommendation came out of the sorting experts in ISO and I believe also in CEN. 4. Well, CLDR does not have more ressources that we have. And they are known not to listen to other expertise than their own. Best regards Keld