From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 108880 invoked by alias); 5 Oct 2019 19:58:45 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-locales-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-locales-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 108800 invoked by uid 89); 5 Oct 2019 19:58:44 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_SOFTFAIL autolearn=no version=3.3.1 spammy=nie X-HELO: eggs.gnu.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=lingonborough.com; s=1568761524.internal; t=1570305515; bh=vtK2feg7eTj/QubCpAiRwkHzJkrH1w1ftGrdhBB+DKE=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject; b=nmbf6weEmCWN5ltEV8HZwtYIhr/376BvsgebciLWwduyObgn9r7+e+ZAh34DUhUuP 1I8Y9PHYlUZeaoUxLlqQvUwJAWFMy3BYIjyGOMqnm21/U1K1OgRNTl1VJnc1dt8eD/ BR9OkeaxabNgH2c5teShcfnMRSnWimVtHzyfWUnAZrpMJqWVnNNZ8ZgTm2RRpPu44T p65BTXEo4IKWXDNtyUgF3oM8gjlEdukdAHTGmx9fyuQyUGmXDsPLjZmr+65Pqb2bt1 VGZgk/UfDfiK6zaQg9F9EtK4yZFE+6psGqOnme45ntHc+SGlNGcD9WnbvEAWBCZkgi G7JkmxkNvKilw== Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 19:58:00 -0000 From: Rafal Luzynski To: "Maciej W. Rozycki" Cc: Keld Simonsen , Mikhail Gribanov , libc-alpha@sourceware.org, bug-glibc-locales@gnu.org Message-ID: <2098008592.995122.1570305481123@poczta.nazwa.pl> In-Reply-To: References: <1260007467.786529.1569624500330@poczta.nazwa.pl> <20190928173736.GA12877@rap.rap.dk> <1380310075.857991.1569959113276@poczta.nazwa.pl> <20191001205442.GB12438@www5.open-std.org> <394513676.949674.1570054369267@poczta.nazwa.pl> Subject: Re: Incorrect days of the week in ru_UA locale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 85.128.223.163 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-SW-Source: 2019-q4/txt/msg00010.txt.bz2 5.10.2019 10:04 "Maciej W. Rozycki" wrote: >=20 > On Thu, 3 Oct 2019, Rafal Luzynski wrote: >=20 > > $ LANG=3Dpl_PL.utf8 date > > czw, 3 pa=C5=BA 2019, 00:00:31 CEST > >=20 > > Do I understand correctly that "tor" is correct here? If yes, > > it is OK, I am not an expert at your language. :-) > >=20 > > I would say that Polish "czw" is not correct. Indeed, normally > > we write weekday names (and month names) lowercase but as this is > > the beginning of a sentence the uppercase first letter would be > > better. For the same reason I think that Russian "=D0=A7=D1=82" is cor= rect > > even if CLDR says otherwise. >=20 > Hmm, can a timestamp be considered a sentence or a nominal sentence? In Polish language, no matter if it is a nominal or a verbal sentence, it should be capitalized. I assume that for Russian as well. But it is a minor error if we do not capitalize. > Moreover, is the use of three letters as the abbreviation correct in the= =20 > first place regardless of its capitalisation? Common usage as in printed= =20 > calendars for the days of the week in Polish has been (starting from Mon): >=20 > Pn, Wt, =C5=9Ar, Cz, Pt, So, N (capitalised) and what we have in locale a= ppears >=20 > pretty arbitrary to me, e.g. "nie" does not appear defined by any language >=20 > standard, with "niedz." or "nd." (with a full stop necessarily included)= =20 > being the acceptable abbreviations in written text other than calendars. AFAIK there is no official specification of the abbreviated forms in the Polish language so any abbreviation is correct. Also, in Glibc we strongly rely on CLDR. [1] It provides more forms that we need, that is both exactly three letter abbreviations and some longer abbreviations like "niedz." On the other hand, I don't think it is necessary to provide longer forms, there are some tools (e.g., cal) which truncate abbreviated weekday names. > Maybe I'm missing something, but I have always found the representation= =20 > of time stamps in our Polish locale disturbingly odd (and, alas, I do not= =20 > use it). I'll be happy to fix it but, again, so far I am not aware of any issue where CLDR provides other data than we have in Glibc (in Polish locale). Regards, Rafal [1] https://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/v#/pl/Gregorian/