From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from EUR06-AM7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am7eur06olkn2020.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.16.20]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 554923857025 for ; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:19:41 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 sourceware.org 554923857025 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=WZz7q3dM0SCWN4XRMfYVpnJZyuwx2Ucn4klcfMz9V5aVc8d9PZQAvWplRFs/szHjGMZ4wiJnNxNUfY2wbdTisTR2uexCLmYWacM0GntTfhcRG5TkQLaYaSGdfHQNvY7E1g6AXaJzVa0UkPc5HfVPUuJigKLqC6GCjlYb1A5xzndrlpUmPnAI2U3Yqz1uz4SM8a7eLosDaJyU7M7VmalemJBY/AnQnMDhwjgXgpGGkAUM5sPAoDfuKNxZL271ZQi7tQs+yJAUxQJnzrFF+v78oTEsw/5BDR3UvO2pR/MWDcRRtruWa4w4r6mN92jQbHnDEJKQGH6OJdR0TiCXpSHaIA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=p5VSa5EWwaAvHUS9YtyQHfHZtJ5vEvx1SETQpIjHY98=; b=UsQ2ZbujGuYoWJeOafAzVm5u5MiNixQBRYrVhqmxQWFptXXMSJXKRLmsnHAUO9bu1tELKiJDUGRAK+GdVUyCd8icw7ssjHmccefGgWgQ1E5MJXC08XA1YJpAut376j4g1/oErPWW5JErThV0OuAAVKN27Tpc2MsDGr8XlVVzt+o88jNefmhk0hrqjuqLQgz04wL3+fiRt22L65cYQWWDMp5khjiCdNbZcUG61qBBwWbkXJ/93NDVbk0Ca2BbtS61/btiXz0V4PsWRT9c6aW1QvQm4bRpMAQnFJkU4m31ew1/7YgbfPFbV6pUmTmL4GDPs7SxMTrFaym9xWCPKWCsrQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none Received: from AM7EUR06FT010.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc36::48) by AM7EUR06HT150.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc36::324) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3174.21; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:19:40 +0000 Received: from DB8PR04MB6972.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc36::49) by AM7EUR06FT010.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc36::478) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3174.21 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:19:40 +0000 Received: from DB8PR04MB6972.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9a0:3628:efcc:93df]) by DB8PR04MB6972.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9a0:3628:efcc:93df%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3174.025; Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:19:39 +0000 From: Eidur Eidsson To: Keld Simonsen CC: "libc-locales@sourceware.org" Subject: Re: English locale for Europe ? en_150 Thread-Topic: English locale for Europe ? en_150 Thread-Index: AQHWVIQQk+5P7BJ4kkO1AsvDLmbdcqj/zUNtgARUD4CAAcU/gg== Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:19:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200707172839.GA13937@rap.rap.dk> , <20200712155743.GA20160@www5.open-std.org> In-Reply-To: <20200712155743.GA20160@www5.open-std.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:63203AD0F9F3B0175A7EC891002B59FD6C5F8EA922FB5E0E60D8062797839D5C; UpperCasedChecksum:38DDEB01D8EFA1A2F8A4FB79D4139F991F6CDBAE2C572C92D4A233B6A9EC4780; SizeAsReceived:6969; Count:45 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [Z8abMZDDeUGCseK9PM3enM4muLRULQhU] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 45 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4eaa5230-bf85-4785-33cd-08d82761b078 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM7EUR06HT150: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: PAASJZIxpUMA1jzieszX6A1cxDJpWw5zWsuewhA1+BSaiAuqLDDJ8l7IBbcicYW5YPv0cVfYp2bZkWoEh7UecUEgSD61a4cqwXUla97cEtTuSxxhBEWZ04lMcO980PcNMLethgS0Kq19I/ShAdG4AcocyqFw2JA/KehdvSSzszNx1wpB95K8TC3yhfj1sxJOuTVO761j8653xvui7mIGbQ== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB8PR04MB6972.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: qaBagf8FPdJvh0iz6ZALtKqHQEDwDnfGB3evXMc9MidrsuVw2g02uSA0wloZvZYfm+Hci+Yi1GjHEtSCaOZ/JKyjq6Zry2MX1PM3hjeMl8MSzzBEDeVJf+AGE23N++bwWXB8/+onqWq5Yf8OFGGXZQ== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM7EUR06FT010.eop-eur06.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4eaa5230-bf85-4785-33cd-08d82761b078 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Jul 2020 19:19:39.7718 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7EUR06HT150 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, DKIM_VALID_EF, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, KAM_NUMSUBJECT, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2, SPF_HELO_PASS, SPF_PASS, TXREP autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on server2.sourceware.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: libc-locales@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Libc-locales mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 19:19:43 -0000 I don't want to start a spat. All we are talking about is whether to make a= n externally defined locale available to users. Our personal opinions on how it should l= ook are irrelevant. In a perfect world, everyone would use ISO dates, and every hum= an language and every programming language used the same decimal separator. But this is= not the case, which is why we have locales in the first place. The locale in question, en_150, is not fully ISO compliant and probably not= meant to be. It cannot suit everyone, but for some users, it may be close enough to what= they prefer. It is easier to change one or two variables to "C" than to set up an intric= ate mix of en_US, en_GB (which oddly import from one another), and other languages. Most users have no desire to build their own locales; they just want to sel= ect one of the included ones and move on. Best regards ee >> Well, the default values in ISO 30112 are not associated with any langua= ge, so >> the i18n file cannot be used with locale-gen as far as I've tried. > why not? I used a similar locale to build many national locales, incl da_= DK > for my own language - Danish, and about 60 other. >> A regional locale is useful for those who want to quickly apply language= -specific >> features while skipping most country-specific features. There are two En= glish >> language CLDR locales for a region rather than a country: en_001 (world)= and >> en_150 (Europe). Most importantly, they use a point as a decimal separat= or, >> which is not the case with i18n. > The comma is the most widely used decimal separator, only a number of Eng= lish speeking countries deviate, > actually many countries use a non breaking space, which i find error pron= e, and I have not seen it > used in monetary environments - banks etc. >> They also don't display the ISO 8601 date format. > That is in my eyes an error, iso 8601 is a standard in most countries of = the world, inc Britain. > if you speak english in a non-natively English country, iso 8601 is the m= ost likely format > to be well understood. Also with the y2k problem, many international orga= nisations decided to use iso 8601 > in the future. > keld