* [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect
2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
@ 2016-08-17 21:13 ` mbalk at mbalk dot de
2016-08-17 21:40 ` [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot vapier at gentoo dot org
` (8 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: mbalk at mbalk dot de @ 2016-08-17 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
mbalk at mbalk dot de changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |mbalk at mbalk dot de
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot
2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
2016-08-17 21:13 ` [Bug localedata/20484] " mbalk at mbalk dot de
@ 2016-08-17 21:40 ` vapier at gentoo dot org
2016-08-18 8:39 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
` (7 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: vapier at gentoo dot org @ 2016-08-17 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
Mike Frysinger <vapier at gentoo dot org> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary|de_DE: abbreviated weekdays |de_DE: abbreviated weekdays
|are incorrect |should be two letters and a
| |dot
--- Comment #1 from Mike Frysinger <vapier at gentoo dot org> ---
we discussed this a bit on the lists already:
https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-alpha/2016-02/msg00144.html
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot
2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
2016-08-17 21:13 ` [Bug localedata/20484] " mbalk at mbalk dot de
2016-08-17 21:40 ` [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot vapier at gentoo dot org
@ 2016-08-18 8:39 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
2017-09-09 10:09 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
` (6 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: fweimer at redhat dot com @ 2016-08-18 8:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
Florian Weimer <fweimer at redhat dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |fweimer at redhat dot com
Flags| |security-
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot
2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2016-08-18 8:39 ` fweimer at redhat dot com
@ 2017-09-09 10:09 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
2017-09-09 10:31 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
` (5 subsequent siblings)
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From: maiku.fabian at gmail dot com @ 2017-09-09 10:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
--- Comment #2 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
See also https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20482
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot
2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2017-09-09 10:09 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
@ 2017-09-09 10:31 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
2017-09-09 10:34 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
` (4 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: maiku.fabian at gmail dot com @ 2017-09-09 10:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|UNCONFIRMED |ASSIGNED
Last reconfirmed| |2017-09-09
Assignee|unassigned at sourceware dot org |maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
Ever confirmed|0 |1
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot
2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2017-09-09 10:31 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
@ 2017-09-09 10:34 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
2017-09-10 10:45 ` Keld Simonsen
2017-09-09 10:42 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
` (3 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: maiku.fabian at gmail dot com @ 2017-09-09 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
--- Comment #3 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
CLDR makes no difference for the weekday abbreviations in the
various German locales, they all share the same weekday
abbreviations.
http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/de.xml
has:
<days>
<dayContext type="format">
<dayWidth type="abbreviated">
<day type="sun">So.</day>
<day type="mon">Mo.</day>
<day type="tue">Di.</day>
<day type="wed">Mi.</day>
<day type="thu">Do.</day>
<day type="fri">Fr.</day>
<day type="sat">Sa.</day>
</dayWidth>
<dayWidth type="narrow">
<day type="sun">S</day>
<day type="mon">M</day>
<day type="tue">D</day>
<day type="wed">M</day>
<day type="thu">D</day>
<day type="fri">F</day>
<day type="sat">S</day>
</dayWidth>
<dayWidth type="short">
<day type="sun">So.</day>
<day type="mon">Mo.</day>
<day type="tue">Di.</day>
<day type="wed">Mi.</day>
<day type="thu">Do.</day>
<day type="fri">Fr.</day>
<day type="sat">Sa.</day>
</dayWidth>
<dayWidth type="wide">
<day type="sun">Sonntag</day>
<day type="mon">Montag</day>
<day type="tue">Dienstag</day>
<day type="wed">Mittwoch</day>
<day type="thu">Donnerstag</day>
<day type="fri">Freitag</day>
<day type="sat">Samstag</day>
</dayWidth>
</dayContext>
<dayContext type="stand-alone">
<dayWidth type="abbreviated">
<day type="sun">So</day>
<day type="mon">Mo</day>
<day type="tue">Di</day>
<day type="wed">Mi</day>
<day type="thu">Do</day>
<day type="fri">Fr</day>
<day type="sat">Sa</day>
</dayWidth>
<dayWidth type="narrow">
<day type="sun">S</day>
<day type="mon">M</day>
<day type="tue">D</day>
<day type="wed">M</day>
<day type="thu">D</day>
<day type="fri">F</day>
<day type="sat">S</day>
</dayWidth>
<dayWidth type="short">
<day type="sun">So.</day>
<day type="mon">Mo.</day>
<day type="tue">Di.</day>
<day type="wed">Mi.</day>
<day type="thu">Do.</day>
<day type="fri">Fr.</day>
<day type="sat">Sa.</day>
</dayWidth>
<dayWidth type="wide">
<day type="sun">Sonntag</day>
<day type="mon">Montag</day>
<day type="tue">Dienstag</day>
<day type="wed">Mittwoch</day>
<day type="thu">Donnerstag</day>
<day type="fri">Freitag</day>
<day type="sat">Samstag</day>
</dayWidth>
</dayContext>
</days>
I.e. the 2-letter abbreviations without dots are used for "stand-alone",
"abbreviated"
whereas the 2-letter abbreviations with dots are used for "stand-alone",
"short",
and for "format", "abbreviated" and for "format", "short".
And none of the de_*.xml files overrides this, so it is the same
for all German locales.
So it doesn’t look like there needs to be a difference between
Switzerland and Germany here according to CLDR.
If you really believe there should be a difference, can you please open
a bug with CLDR?
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* Re: [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot
2017-09-09 10:34 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
@ 2017-09-10 10:45 ` Keld Simonsen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Keld Simonsen @ 2017-09-10 10:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: maiku.fabian at gmail dot com; +Cc: libc-locales
Hi
I think we should have an entry for POSIX-like day and month abbreviations, that should be
3 letters wide.
I do not think we need to coordinate all our data with CLDR, I actually think we have a
very active community that is capable of maintaining our inforation ourselves.
So no need to open bug requests with CLDR - but of cause we should try to align with them, and they with us.
I believe there is a difference in month names between Germany and Austria.
Best regrds
keld
On Sat, Sep 09, 2017 at 10:31:36AM +0000, maiku.fabian at gmail dot com wrote:
> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
>
> --- Comment #3 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
> CLDR makes no difference for the weekday abbreviations in the
> various German locales, they all share the same weekday
> abbreviations.
>
> http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/de.xml
>
> has:
>
> <days>
> <dayContext type="format">
> <dayWidth type="abbreviated">
> <day type="sun">So.</day>
> <day type="mon">Mo.</day>
> <day type="tue">Di.</day>
> <day type="wed">Mi.</day>
> <day type="thu">Do.</day>
> <day type="fri">Fr.</day>
> <day type="sat">Sa.</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="narrow">
> <day type="sun">S</day>
> <day type="mon">M</day>
> <day type="tue">D</day>
> <day type="wed">M</day>
> <day type="thu">D</day>
> <day type="fri">F</day>
> <day type="sat">S</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="short">
> <day type="sun">So.</day>
> <day type="mon">Mo.</day>
> <day type="tue">Di.</day>
> <day type="wed">Mi.</day>
> <day type="thu">Do.</day>
> <day type="fri">Fr.</day>
> <day type="sat">Sa.</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="wide">
> <day type="sun">Sonntag</day>
> <day type="mon">Montag</day>
> <day type="tue">Dienstag</day>
> <day type="wed">Mittwoch</day>
> <day type="thu">Donnerstag</day>
> <day type="fri">Freitag</day>
> <day type="sat">Samstag</day>
> </dayWidth>
> </dayContext>
> <dayContext type="stand-alone">
> <dayWidth type="abbreviated">
> <day type="sun">So</day>
> <day type="mon">Mo</day>
> <day type="tue">Di</day>
> <day type="wed">Mi</day>
> <day type="thu">Do</day>
> <day type="fri">Fr</day>
> <day type="sat">Sa</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="narrow">
> <day type="sun">S</day>
> <day type="mon">M</day>
> <day type="tue">D</day>
> <day type="wed">M</day>
> <day type="thu">D</day>
> <day type="fri">F</day>
> <day type="sat">S</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="short">
> <day type="sun">So.</day>
> <day type="mon">Mo.</day>
> <day type="tue">Di.</day>
> <day type="wed">Mi.</day>
> <day type="thu">Do.</day>
> <day type="fri">Fr.</day>
> <day type="sat">Sa.</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="wide">
> <day type="sun">Sonntag</day>
> <day type="mon">Montag</day>
> <day type="tue">Dienstag</day>
> <day type="wed">Mittwoch</day>
> <day type="thu">Donnerstag</day>
> <day type="fri">Freitag</day>
> <day type="sat">Samstag</day>
> </dayWidth>
> </dayContext>
> </days>
>
> I.e. the 2-letter abbreviations without dots are used for "stand-alone",
> "abbreviated"
> whereas the 2-letter abbreviations with dots are used for "stand-alone",
> "short",
> and for "format", "abbreviated" and for "format", "short".
>
> And none of the de_*.xml files overrides this, so it is the same
> for all German locales.
>
> So it doesn???t look like there needs to be a difference between
> Switzerland and Germany here according to CLDR.
>
> If you really believe there should be a difference, can you please open
> a bug with CLDR?
>
> --
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You are on the CC list for the bug.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot
2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
` (5 preceding siblings ...)
2017-09-09 10:34 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
@ 2017-09-09 10:42 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
2017-09-10 12:53 ` keld at keldix dot com
` (2 subsequent siblings)
9 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: maiku.fabian at gmail dot com @ 2017-09-09 10:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |digitalfreak@lingonborough.
| |com
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2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
` (6 preceding siblings ...)
2017-09-09 10:42 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
@ 2017-09-10 12:53 ` keld at keldix dot com
2017-09-11 11:05 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
2017-10-18 13:51 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
9 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: keld at keldix dot com @ 2017-09-10 12:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
--- Comment #4 from keld at keldix dot com <keld at keldix dot com> ---
Hi
I think we should have an entry for POSIX-like day and month abbreviations,
that should be
3 letters wide.
I do not think we need to coordinate all our data with CLDR, I actually think
we have a
very active community that is capable of maintaining our inforation ourselves.
So no need to open bug requests with CLDR - but of cause we should try to align
with them, and they with us.
I believe there is a difference in month names between Germany and Austria.
Best regrds
keld
On Sat, Sep 09, 2017 at 10:31:36AM +0000, maiku.fabian at gmail dot com wrote:
> https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
>
> --- Comment #3 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
> CLDR makes no difference for the weekday abbreviations in the
> various German locales, they all share the same weekday
> abbreviations.
>
> http://www.unicode.org/repos/cldr/trunk/common/main/de.xml
>
> has:
>
> <days>
> <dayContext type="format">
> <dayWidth type="abbreviated">
> <day type="sun">So.</day>
> <day type="mon">Mo.</day>
> <day type="tue">Di.</day>
> <day type="wed">Mi.</day>
> <day type="thu">Do.</day>
> <day type="fri">Fr.</day>
> <day type="sat">Sa.</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="narrow">
> <day type="sun">S</day>
> <day type="mon">M</day>
> <day type="tue">D</day>
> <day type="wed">M</day>
> <day type="thu">D</day>
> <day type="fri">F</day>
> <day type="sat">S</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="short">
> <day type="sun">So.</day>
> <day type="mon">Mo.</day>
> <day type="tue">Di.</day>
> <day type="wed">Mi.</day>
> <day type="thu">Do.</day>
> <day type="fri">Fr.</day>
> <day type="sat">Sa.</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="wide">
> <day type="sun">Sonntag</day>
> <day type="mon">Montag</day>
> <day type="tue">Dienstag</day>
> <day type="wed">Mittwoch</day>
> <day type="thu">Donnerstag</day>
> <day type="fri">Freitag</day>
> <day type="sat">Samstag</day>
> </dayWidth>
> </dayContext>
> <dayContext type="stand-alone">
> <dayWidth type="abbreviated">
> <day type="sun">So</day>
> <day type="mon">Mo</day>
> <day type="tue">Di</day>
> <day type="wed">Mi</day>
> <day type="thu">Do</day>
> <day type="fri">Fr</day>
> <day type="sat">Sa</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="narrow">
> <day type="sun">S</day>
> <day type="mon">M</day>
> <day type="tue">D</day>
> <day type="wed">M</day>
> <day type="thu">D</day>
> <day type="fri">F</day>
> <day type="sat">S</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="short">
> <day type="sun">So.</day>
> <day type="mon">Mo.</day>
> <day type="tue">Di.</day>
> <day type="wed">Mi.</day>
> <day type="thu">Do.</day>
> <day type="fri">Fr.</day>
> <day type="sat">Sa.</day>
> </dayWidth>
> <dayWidth type="wide">
> <day type="sun">Sonntag</day>
> <day type="mon">Montag</day>
> <day type="tue">Dienstag</day>
> <day type="wed">Mittwoch</day>
> <day type="thu">Donnerstag</day>
> <day type="fri">Freitag</day>
> <day type="sat">Samstag</day>
> </dayWidth>
> </dayContext>
> </days>
>
> I.e. the 2-letter abbreviations without dots are used for "stand-alone",
> "abbreviated"
> whereas the 2-letter abbreviations with dots are used for "stand-alone",
> "short",
> and for "format", "abbreviated" and for "format", "short".
>
> And none of the de_*.xml files overrides this, so it is the same
> for all German locales.
>
> So it doesn???t look like there needs to be a difference between
> Switzerland and Germany here according to CLDR.
>
> If you really believe there should be a difference, can you please open
> a bug with CLDR?
>
> --
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You are on the CC list for the bug.
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* [Bug localedata/20484] de_DE: abbreviated weekdays should be two letters and a dot
2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
` (7 preceding siblings ...)
2017-09-10 12:53 ` keld at keldix dot com
@ 2017-09-11 11:05 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
2017-10-18 13:51 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
9 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: maiku.fabian at gmail dot com @ 2017-09-11 11:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
--- Comment #5 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
(In reply to keld@keldix.com from comment #4)
> Hi
>
> I think we should have an entry for POSIX-like day and month abbreviations,
> that should be
> 3 letters wide.
>
> I do not think we need to coordinate all our data with CLDR, I actually
> think we have a
> very active community that is capable of maintaining our inforation
> ourselves.
>
> So no need to open bug requests with CLDR - but of cause we should try to
> align with them, and they with us.
>
> I believe there is a difference in month names between Germany and Austria.
Yes, there is a difference in the month names. In de_AT and de_IT
the name for January is “Jänner”, in the other German locales it is
“Januar”.
But there is no difference in the weekday names among the German locales.
There maybe some difference in how to abbreviate the weekday names,
the reference given in
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20482
says that weekdays in German speaking regions of Switzerland should
be abbreviated with two letters without a dot.
The reference gived to the Duden in comment#0 of this bug here
seems less convincing to me.
And CLDR does not make any difference in the weekday abbreviations
between any of the German locales.
CLDR has both the versions with and without the dots for different
types of abbreviations but no difference between the German locales.
I, personally, as German native speaker would tend to use the dots
if using the abbreviation in a full date like “So. 10. 09. 2017”
but without the dots if labelling columns of a calendar like
September 2017
So Mo Di Mi Do Fr Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
But that is only my personal opinion.
And I don’t find the reference given in comment#0 of this bug
particularly convincing, as it does not talk at all about
the context in which the abbreviation is used.
The reference given in
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20482
does not talk about the context either, it unconditionally
says that no dots should be used.
Overall I think the two letter abbreviations without the dots
we have at the moment are reasonably good.
I would like to change this only if somebody comes up
with really better references why a change is needed.
Maybe discussing with CLDR upstream why they have the
current weekday abbreviations for German and why they
make no difference between the different German locales
helps to sort this out.
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2016-08-17 21:13 [Bug localedata/20484] New: de_DE: abbreviated weekdays are incorrect mbalk at mbalk dot de
` (8 preceding siblings ...)
2017-09-11 11:05 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
@ 2017-10-18 13:51 ` maiku.fabian at gmail dot com
9 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: maiku.fabian at gmail dot com @ 2017-10-18 13:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: libc-locales
https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=20484
Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED
Resolution|--- |WORKSFORME
--- Comment #6 from Mike FABIAN <maiku.fabian at gmail dot com> ---
(In reply to Mike FABIAN from comment #5)
> Overall I think the two letter abbreviations without the dots
> we have at the moment are reasonably good.
>
> I would like to change this only if somebody comes up
> with really better references why a change is needed.
Closing as WORKSFORME.
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