From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 76157 invoked by alias); 17 Nov 2018 00:11:36 -0000 Mailing-List: contact libc-locales-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: libc-locales-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 76095 invoked by uid 48); 17 Nov 2018 00:11:31 -0000 From: "digitalfreak at lingonborough dot com" To: libc-locales@sourceware.org Subject: [Bug localedata/23857] Esperanto has no country Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 00:11:00 -0000 X-Bugzilla-Reason: CC X-Bugzilla-Type: changed X-Bugzilla-Watch-Reason: None X-Bugzilla-Product: glibc X-Bugzilla-Component: localedata X-Bugzilla-Version: unspecified X-Bugzilla-Keywords: X-Bugzilla-Severity: normal X-Bugzilla-Who: digitalfreak at lingonborough dot com X-Bugzilla-Status: UNCONFIRMED X-Bugzilla-Resolution: X-Bugzilla-Priority: P2 X-Bugzilla-Assigned-To: unassigned at sourceware dot org X-Bugzilla-Target-Milestone: --- X-Bugzilla-Flags: security- X-Bugzilla-Changed-Fields: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Bugzilla-URL: http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/ Auto-Submitted: auto-generated MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SW-Source: 2018-q4/txt/msg00111.txt.bz2 https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D23857 --- Comment #7 from Rafal Luzynski = --- Hi, I'm sorry for the delayed reply. (In reply to Carmen Bianca Bakker from comment #6) > [...] > https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/issues/260 - Appears > glibc-related, because the languages and locales/formats map directly to > glibc options. I wish I was more competent with C, and I'd try to fix it= up > myself. Thank you. I have not looked at the source code yet but my guess is that t= he list of territories comes from the list of locales with language part strip= ped. This makes some sense to me: formats, units, etc. depend on the territory rather than language. For example, English locale may have different units, currency, country name etc. for USA, UK, Australia, India, Ireland, and so = on.=20 On the other hand, people living in one country probably use the same forma= ts, units, and currency even if they speak different languages. Therefore, if = you want to select "Esperanto" as the locale for formats then... actually what would you expect? Currency, country name, address format, car plate - "as = used in (where?)" Why "Netherlands" would not work better for you, for example? I understand you may have some some good reasons to select Esperanto formats but I'm trying to reflect the reasons of GNOME designers. > https://bugs.python.org/issue35163 - Some weird obsolete configuration. My first suggestion is that Python should not map ambiguous locales into detailed ones but not supported by the current operating system. Would adding "eo.ISO8859-3" help to fix this issue? I think the reason is = that historically the locales without the encoding specified used 8-bit encoding like ISO 8859-1 or ISO 8859-3. Therefore often the locales map to 8-bit encodings unless you specify "utf8" explicitly. Later when Unicode became popular and widely used, newly added locales in glibc used UTF-8 as their o= nly encoding. This is the case of Esperanto: "eo" is an alias of "eo.UTF-8".=20 Somehow Python treats it as an alias of "eo_XX.ISO8859-3". On the other hand I am not sure if adding the old encodings makes sense nowadays. Old encodings are preserved only in order not to break existing systems. Does any existing Linux system use "eo.ISO8859-3" and rely on it?= Is it likely to be true if this locale has never existed? > (In reply to Rafal Luzynski from comment #5) > > I was not aware of this case with Interlingua. I would rather go for > > renaming "ia_FR" to "ia" so that "eo" would not be alone anymore :-) bu= t my > > knowledge about Interlingua is too little to enforce it now. >=20 > Is it okay to add the author of the original Interlingua bug report to th= is > bug report? Perhaps they can add an original insight, and perhaps their > motivation for choosing "ia_FR" over "ia". The bug report is https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D14879 b= ut I wouldn't like to bother the authors of Interlingua patch with the issues of Esperanto. By the way, it has been recently considered a bug by CLDR to assign Interli= ngua to France: http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/11164 This raises my motivation to rename "ia_FR" to "ia" but not to the level sufficient to actually do it. > [...] > CLDR has "Unknown Region" listed under ZZ, which would work sufficiently > well for country-less languages. i.e., proposed solution 2, or solution 3 > with "Unknown Region" as country (and "XXX" as currency). >=20 > https://unicode.org/cldr/charts/34/summary/root.html It is possible as a workaround but I still believe we are able to handle "e= o" without a country name. Even more: we (the glibc project) are able to hand= le it and as there are projects which do not (yet) handle it correctly I think= we should rather approach them and tell them how to fix it. So far I don't th= ink we have found any project where the issue exists and cannot be fixed. > It could also work for Yiddish, where "yi_US" is for the Yiddish populati= on > inside the US, and "yi_ZZ" could be used by non-US Yiddish populations who > are spread across many other countries. Though in the case of Yiddish > specifically, it might probably make sense to add an Israel entry, but th= at > will likely depend on a qualified volunteer doing the work. Definitely no, Yiddish is not an artificial language and definitely is rela= ted with some territories where it is actually spoken. It seems to me that Isr= ael could make sense and I don't mind adding it if needed, probably also USA ma= kes sense. I don't think that calling Yiddish "worldwide" or "non-US" or "unkn= own" (in terms of territory) makes sense because we can tell the same about any random language. And please, if possible let's focus on Esperanto here rather than discussing possible changes in other languages. --=20 You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.